“Find the bodies if you can.”
- John Wayne Gacy, death-row message
John Wayne Gacy’s alter ego, Pogo the Clown
John Wayne Gacy.
Three words synonymous with evil.
Even 32 years after his conviction in Chicago for murdering 33 young men and boys – most of whom were buried in a crawl space under his house – it’s a case our nation will never forget.
And a case so gruesome and shocking, it ranks No. 13 on Time’s Top 25 Crimes of the 20th Century.
But even after Gacy’s 1994 execution, the case is not closed in the minds of many criminal experts who are convinced Gacy killed more than 33 people.
And over the years, investigators and amateur detectives have tried to pinpoint the location of other Gacy victims without success.
But in a stunning development, new information – related to a controversial 1998 Chicago Police Department search for more Gacy victims – strongly suggests that a location in a quiet Chicago family neighborhood is the burial site for additional victims of America’s worst serial killer.
Author’s Note
Story Last Updated On January 16, 2013
“Unfinished Nightmare: The Search for More Victims of John Wayne Gacy” began as an interview story in September 2009 for a graduate journalism class I was taking at Roosevelt University. My subject, Bill Dorsch, was a private detective with Northern Lights Investigative Services and an ex-CPD homicide detective.
While discussing some of his most memorable cases during his 25-year career, Dorsch brought up his ties to a 1998 Chicago Police Department investigation that centered on the search for more victims of serial killer John Wayne Gacy. The search focused on a site near O’Hare International Airport.
Intrigued, I decided to write a story about that investigation and the possibility of undiscovered Gacy victims.
Dorsch was kind enough to grant me several more interviews and access to his Gacy case files. From there, I spent about 10 months thoroughly researching the 1998 CPD Gacy investigation and the original Gacy case that started with his arrest in 1978.
In December 2010, I completed “Unfinished Nightmare.” But at 15,000 words, the story was too long for a magazine and too short for a book. So, I decided to self-publish on ShadowReports.com.
ShadowReports is my start-up site where I publish some of my stories and various creative works. “Unfinished Nightmare” was posted on February 7, 2011.
In March 2011, several Chicago and national media outlets reported on the new developments in the Gacy case – based on my story – but most failed to credit ShadowReports or myself as the source.
However, WGN-TV was one of the few news organizations that did credit ShadowReports with breaking the story in its report, “More Gacy Victims?” – March 17, 2011.
As a result of the ShadowReports article and related follow-up stories, there was renewed interest in the Gacy case, which culminated with the Cook County Sheriff’s Office reopening the case in October 2011.
“Unfinished Nightmare” is based on dozens of interviews and hundreds of sources.
The original Gacy case background for Chapters 1-3 are based on interviews with Des Plaines Police Department investigators, Cook County Sheriff’s Office investigators, Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office investigators and prosecutors at the 1980 trial, and on newspaper, magazine and television stories, and the books Killer Clown (Windsor Publishing 1983) by Terry Sullivan, The Man Who Killed Boys (St. Martin’s Press 1980) by Clifford Linedecker, I Have Lived in the Monster (St. Martin’s Press 1997) by Robert Ressler, and The Chicago Killer (Xlibris 2003) by Joseph Kozenczak and Karen Henrikson.
The first quote by Joseph Kozenczak in Chapter 3 is from his book, The Chicago Killer, but it is presented as a direct quote with permission from the author. The purpose is to enhance story flow. The same device is used for Clifford Linedecker’s quote in Chapter 7, who also granted permission as the author of The Man Who Killed Boys.
Due to the length of the story and to make it easier to read, the article is presented in chapters.
Prologue: A Late-Night Encounter
It was 3 a.m. and Bill Dorsch looked forward to getting home.
As a 31-year old tactical officer in the violent crimes division of the Chicago Police Department, Dorsch had spent the past eight hours working the streets on Chicago’s northwest side.
The 1971 CPD graduate discovered that after a year or two on patrol you get a feel for the streets. There’s a smell and taste distinct to each city block.
And during an average shift in the summer of 1975, Dorsch would drive endlessly up and down the streets observing suspects, snaking his unmarked 1974 green Dodge through dimly lit alleys chasing the bad guys – all his senses on high alert.
He would make between 20 and 30 stops a night ranging from drug deals, prostitution, and gang activity to armed robberies, bar fights, and murder.
Dorsch embraced it all. He especially loved the adrenaline rush he got from a “hot call” – that is, a crime in progress.
But at this moment, Dorsch was exhausted. He couldn’t wait to crawl into bed next to his wife and put the night behind him. His lower back ached, his shoulders slumped and his bloodshot eyes felt heavy as he stared through the windshield of his yellow Plymouth Duster.
But as he was about to turn into the side road by his home near O’Hare Airport, Dorsch noticed something strange. He saw a short, husky man lumbering across the street with a shovel in his hand.
“John, it’s 3 o’clock in the morning, what are you doing?” Dorsch asked the man, whom he now recognized.
“Bill, you know me, not enough hours in the day,” John said with a laugh. “You get it done when you can.”
Dorsch shook his head, smiled and went on his way. He didn’t give the incident much thought until three years later when John Gacy, independent contractor, became John Wayne Gacy, America’s worst serial killer.
And no one could have imagined that 1975 random late-night encounter would be the catalyst for a controversial 1998 search for more Gacy victims and spark a mystery 36 years later about the true depths of Gacy’s murderous rage.
Chapter 1: The Colonel
Named after the legendary movie star, John Wayne Gacy was born in Chicago on St. Patrick’s Day in 1942.
He was close with his two sisters and mom, who called him “Johnny.” And he enjoyed a relatively normal childhood with the exception of a volatile relationship with his alcoholic father, John Wayne Gacy Sr.
In the early 1960s, after dropping out of high school and spending a few years as a drifter, John Jr. took a job managing a men’s clothing store in Springfield, Illinois.
Young Gacy, who possessed a natural talent for sales, excelled in the position. He also began dating pretty co-worker Marlynn Myers.
The couple married in 1964 and moved to Waterloo, Iowa where Gacy managed three KFC restaurants owned by his father-in-law.
Nicknamed “the Colonel,” Gacy was an active member of the community and a leader in the Waterloo Jaycees.
However, in 1968, Gacy’s idyllic middle-class lifestyle and social status were shattered when two Waterloo boys – age 15 and 16 – accused him of sexual assault (one of the boys would later commit suicide).
The felony charge came as a shock to his wife and friends.
“It was all so hard for us to believe,” said Waterloo Motel manager Charles Hill in a 1979 Newsweek interview. “He was such a good doggone Jaycee.”
Gacy, 25, pleaded guilty to sodomy and was sentenced to 10 years in state prison. Marlynn filed for divorce after his conviction. The Colonel would never see his wife or two children again.
Gacy’s 1968 Iowa mug shot
During his incarceration, the stocky 5-foot-8-inch, 210-pound Gacy was a model prisoner and was paroled in June 1970, after serving just 18 months.
He immediately returned to Chicago hoping for a fresh start – but time in prison did little to change John Gacy.
Within 18 months of his release, he was arrested twice by Chicago police for violent sex crimes involving teenage boys. But the charges – unknown to Gacy’s Iowa parole officer – were eventually dropped.
On June 1, 1972, Gacy married his former high-school sweetheart Carole Hoff, who along with her two daughters, moved into Gacy’s house near O’Hare Airport.
Gacy, who now had a second chance at a happy family life, focused on being a good husband and father. And he supported Carole and the young girls by running PDM Contractors – a small, but modestly successful construction company.
As the years went by, it appeared the charismatic and charming Gacy had conquered his demons – he was a respected business owner and neighborhood celebrity who would host elaborate theme parties for hundreds of guests; he did volunteer work and would entertain at children’s parties and hospitals dressed as his alter ego, “Pogo the Clown,” and he was photographed with First Lady Rosalyn Carter during the annual Chicago Polish Day Parade, an event he helped organize.
Gacy with First Lady Rosalyn Carter
But below the surface, a dark and insatiable sexual rage was consuming Gacy. And once again, his life began to unravel.
In 1976, Carole filed for divorce saying she could no longer deal with her husband’s unpredictable moods and obsession with pornography.
And two years later, the high school dropout would find himself at the center of a small-town police investigation that would make his name – John Wayne Gacy – synonymous with evil.
Chapter 2: The Disappearance of Robert Piest
In 1978, 15-year-old Robert Piest, a clean-cut kid who worked at Nisson Pharmacy in Des Plaines, Illinois, went missing around 9 p.m. on Monday, December 11.
Robert Piest with his mom, Elizabeth
And local contractor John Gacy – who was in the store that night scouting a future construction job – was the last person to see him.
When the Des Plaines Police Department checked Gacy’s criminal record the next day, they discovered the 1968 Iowa sodomy charge.
On Wednesday, December 13, the police executed a search warrant for his home, located just outside Chicago city limits.
Gacy’s house circa 1978
“The house had an aura of coldness and neglect and it didn’t take us long to realize that Gacy lived in a world of deviant fantasies embellished through books, tapes, all kinds of kinky aids, and drugs,” says Joe Kozenczak, the former Des Plaines police lieutenant who was in charge of the Gacy investigation.
“I remember just before checking out the crawl space, I had an image of finding Rob Piest down there, bound but still alive,” Kozenczak continues. “But we found absolutely nothing. I looked around for signs of a fresh grave, but the ground was like settled clay, and there was no indication it had been disturbed. There was nothing – only the usual smell of a damp basement.”
After the three-hour search, which didn’t turn up any obvious incriminating evidence, Kozenczak’s team returned to headquarters to run tests on the items they collected.
During their review, the detectives discovered two key pieces of evidence – a ring that belonged to another missing teenager and a receipt for a roll of film that a girlfriend of Piest’s had put in his jacket.
On Thursday, December 21, authorities – armed with this new evidence and a tip from a Gacy employee that the crawl space might contain bodies – obtained a second search warrant for Gacy’s home.
Kozenczak – who described Gacy as unshaven, unwashed, and usually dressed in rumpled clothes that made him look like the definition of a slob – says he started to realize the possible enormity of the case just days before the second search of Gacy’s house.
“We never suspected we were in the middle of a serial murder case,” recalls Kozenczak, whose son was a sophomore in the same class as Piest at Maine West High School in Des Plaines.
“We approached it as a missing persons investigation. We were just looking for one kid,” Kozenczak says. “But as the case evolved, we pieced together evidence and discovered other reports of missing kids that had ties to Gacy. And we realized we might find more than one body buried under the house.”
Around eight o’ clock Thursday night, less than an hour after they began digging in the 40-foot crawl space under Gacy’s home, investigators uncovered the first body.
And later that night at the Des Plaines police station, Gacy, 36, confessed that for six years starting in January 1972, he lured young men and boys to his home for sex – then tortured and strangled them.
Gacy, who possessed an above-average IQ, explained to the stunned officers how he would lure a victim into his car by pretending to be policeman “Jack Hanley,” or by promising a high-paying construction job.
After Gacy got his target home, he would offer alcohol and drugs and eventually bring out a pair of trick handcuffs he used in his clown act. Gacy would put them on and quickly get free. He would then dare the boy to try it.
Once his victim was securely manacled, Gacy would tell him the trick was to have the key. He would then take his time raping and torturing the boy before eventually killing him.
And adding to the morbid nature of his crime, Gacy would sometimes have sex with the corpse and sleep with it for a day or two before disposing of the body.
Gacy, who was fond of saying “a clown can get away with murder,” went on to make voluntary confessions to more than 30 murders.
He also drew a detailed map to the location of 27 shallow graves beneath his house, which he called his “burial grounds,” and one each under the concrete in his garage and patio.
In addition, he admitted to dumping four other victims – including Robert Piest – into the Des Plaines River.
Gacy’s mug shot the night he was arrested
During the dig, investigators discovered the trenches in the crawlspace were about three feet wide, six feet long and two feet deep and were dug by Gacy and his crew – who thought the holes were for a drainage problem.
And because Gacy murdered some of his employees, it’s likely a few of them actually dug their own grave.
By February 1979, the crawlspace excavation uncovered 27 bodies.
The crawlspace during the excavation
“One of the most disturbing aspects of the case was the fact that some of these kids were probably buried alive,” says Rafael Tovar, one of the 10 officers who worked on the excavation team. ”And every day parents were devastated, receiving the ultimate bad news that their kid was dead. Families could no longer hold out hope that their missing loved one might still be alive.”
In April 1979, the body of Robert Piest was found along the banks of the Illinois River. Gacy confessed he strangled Piest in his home shortly after abducting him from the Nisson Pharmacy parking lot.
Gacy also said Piest’s body was still in his house when four Des Plaines police officers questioned him the next day in his living room.
After concluding their investigation, the police charged Gacy with 33 murders – 27 in the crawlspace, one each in the garage and patio, and four in the river. And authorities discovered all his victims were young men in their early teens to early 20s.
Chapter 3: One Less Cub’s Fan
Gacy’s trial began on Feb. 6, 1980, in the Cook County Criminal Courts Building in Chicago and lasted just five weeks. The jury took only two hours to find him guilty on all 33 counts of murder.
The next day, Gacy was sentenced to death by electrocution and sent to Menard Correctional Center, a prison located in southern Illinois. He would remain there for 14 years until he was transported to Stateville Correctional Center for execution.
Gacy, who began a campaign of innocence after his trial, spent much of his time in prison working on appeals, playing cards, writing letters and painting.
His works – which brought in sales of over $100,000 from such collectors as Johnny Depp and John Waters – included clowns, the Seven Dwarfs, Jesus, Hitler, Elvis and fellow serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer.
A Gacy painting of Pogo the Clown
During his time on death row, Gacy never expressed a hint of remorse for his crimes and called his victims “a bunch of worthless little queers and punks,” and joked, “I should never have been convicted of anything more serious than running a cemetery without a license.”
Robert Ressler, a retired FBI profiler who has interviewed more than 50 serial killers including Gacy, said in his book, I Have Lived In The Monster (St. Martin’s Press 1997), he found it perverse that Gacy was allowed to keep a scrapbook of his victims while in prison.
“The authorities permitted Gacy to collect photos of the murdered young men as part of gathering material for his own defense,” said Ressler, who coined the term “serial killer” in the 1970s. “But the way he kept these photos in his cell, in a scrapbook, had – to me – far darker implications.
“For Gacy, these photos were pornographic,” Ressler continued in his book. “He could look at them and relive his crimes, the way he had killed each and every one of them, and become sexually excited. His having these materials in his cell was one last instance in which this paranoid murderer was able to con the authorities.”
On May 9, 1994, the 52 year-old diehard Cubs fan sat down for his final meal: a dozen deep-fried shrimp, a bucket of original recipe KFC chicken, French fries, a Coke and a pound of fresh strawberries.
As midnight approached, a crowd had gathered outside the Stateville prison – located about 40 miles southwest of Chicago – and chanted slogans such as “Death to the clown” and “We want the body.”
Inside, there were 41 witnesses to the execution. None of the victims’ families were allowed to attend.
British journalist William Cash, one of the 41 in attendance, described the last moments of Gacy’s life for a story in the Daily Mail:
As he was wheeled into the chamber, he made no eye contact. Almost his last sight of this world was an Exit sign over the door. As the poison began to work – a deadly cocktail of sodium pentathol, pancuronium bromide and potassium chloride – there was a reflex jerk of his head, followed by a loud snort. For three minutes, his puggish, wide-open eyes bulged in their sockets. His flabby belly heaved in and out.
Then, as if in a surreal black pantomime, an official stepped calmly forward and closed the theatre-like curtains.
What had happened, it seems, is that the Illinois State death machine had malfunctioned. A technician had to replace the tubing because some of the poison had ‘gelled.’ When the curtains reopened, Gacy had turned purple and was still twitching. Instead of taking 10 minutes to execute him, it took nearly 20. He was finally pronounced dead at 12:58 am.
But even after Gacy’s execution, the case is not closed in the minds of many criminal experts who are convinced Gacy left undiscovered victims.
Chapter 4: More Victims?
“There’s no reason to believe Gacy didn’t kill 100 people,” says former Gacy prosecutor Terry Sullivan, who called Gacy the “worst of all murderers” and “an evil, vile, diabolical, cunning man” at his 1980 trial. “We knew there were 33, but in my mind I’m pretty certain he had other victims.”
According to Rafael Tovar, a former Des Plaines police officer who helped break the case in 1978, Gacy would only give up information authorities already knew about or were going to find out anyway.
“Once he knew that we found bodies in the crawl space, he said, ‘I don’t want you guys to mess up my house. I’ll draw you a map where they all are.’ And he did,” Tovar recalls. “But if you asked Gacy about something he didn’t think you knew about, he was coy and would not cooperate.”
Tovar – who was the liaison for the Des Plaines Police Department when the Cook County Sheriff’s Office took over the investigation – says he remembers his last conversation with Gacy, which took place during a 45-minute car ride while he was transferring Gacy from the Des Plaines police station to a Cook County jail:
Tovar: John, we’ve been running around and I don’t want to be running around forever. How many bodies are we looking for?
Gacy: Well, you know, I told my lawyers there’s about 30, 30 some odd. You know what, the number 45 sounds really good.
Tovar: Really.
Gacy: Yeah, sounds really good.
Tovar: Well, where are the rest of them?
Gacy: That’s for you to find out.
“So, I honestly believe there are more victims,” Tovar says. “But, where and how many? Who knows?”
Gacy himself challenged investigators when he scrawled the haunting message, “Find the bodies if you can,” on the back of a death-row painting depicting an Arkansas farmhouse.
Joe Kozenczak, the former Des Plaines police lieutenant who was in charge of the 1978 Gacy investigation, says he viewed the painting and doesn’t doubt the sincerity of Gacy’s words.
“I am convinced Gacy killed a lot more than 33 people,” says Kozenczak, who served on a federal task force that was responsible for establishing the first set of guidelines for investigating serial killings in the U.S. “I think there are other victims out there, not only in the Chicago area but other parts of the country.”
Legendary FBI profiler and Chicago native Robert Ressler – whose real life experiences have been the inspiration for several books and movies including Silence of the Lambs and Copycat – said in his book, I Have Lived In The Monster (St. Martin’s Press 1997), “Gacy is responsible for far more homicides, in many more locations throughout the country, than those for which he was convicted. But the prosecutorial authorities in Illinois refuse to acknowledge this possibility.”
Ressler, who had several interviews with Gacy over the years, also said in the book, The Chicago Killer (Xlibris 2003), that Gacy’s final statement to him was, “Why should I play ball with the State of Illinois that wants to kill me.”
For the record, Gacy, “a brilliant manipulator” and a “serial liar” according to Ressler, never admitted or denied committing other homicides.
And remarkably, Gacy claimed his 1978 confession at the Des Plaines police station never happened and often called himself, “the 34th victim.”
“People don’t want to know the truth,” Gacy told Chicago CBS 2 television news anchor Walter Jacobson in a 1992 death-row interview. “Then fine, then go ahead and kill me, but vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord, because you will have executed somebody that didn’t commit the crime.”
Serial killer expert Mark Safarik – a former FBI profiler and current executive director of Forensic Behavioral Services International in Virginia – says such denials are common among serial killers.
“It’s the ultimate control when you’re obviously guilty to say you’re innocent, that you’re executing the wrong person,” explains Safarik, who also serves as a consultant for CSI: Las Vegas. “Gacy was playing with people. It’s what he liked to do. It was all part of the game. It was a way for him to continue his control and manipulate the system.”
Safarik, who spent 12 of his 23 years at the FBI working as a senior profiler, also says most serial killers don’t give up all their victims and if Gacy had committed other murders it makes sense he didn’t talk about them.
“Not giving up other victims runs true to his pattern because Gacy denied guilt for the original homicides, so why would he admit to additional ones that are unknown. His behavior was consistent,” Safarik says.
Gacy’s defense attorney Robert Motta told Newsweek in 1998 that hypothetically speaking about someone with a personality like Gacy’s, “It’s certainly possible there are more victims, not only here but in other parts of the country.”
So, if the experts are correct in believing Gacy was responsible for more than 33 murders, where did he dispose of the bodies?
Chapter 5: Gacy-Miami Part One
Over the years, criminal specialists and amateur detectives have tried to pinpoint the location of additional Gacy victims without success. And with Gacy’s execution in 1994, it seemed a hopeless pursuit.
But, in November of 1998, the Chicago Police Department – acting on a tip from the Chicago-watchdog group Better Government Association (BGA) – investigated a property located in a quiet blue-collar neighborhood near O’Hare Airport.
According to several 1998 media reports, the West Miami Avenue apartment building property seemed like a logical site for more Gacy victims – former Chicago police detective Bill Dorsch saw Gacy there in 1975 carrying a shovel at 3 a.m; Gacy’s mom, Marion Elaine Gacy, had lived in the building for a period of time in the ’70s; and a Better Government Association partial radar scan of the parking lot and front yard, suggested possible human remains.
So, on the morning of Monday, November 23, 1998 – with a sky full of helicopters and camera crews perched on nearby rooftops – the CPD sealed off the area around the Miami Avenue residential building, erected a white tent in the front yard, and began a ground scan radar survey of the property.
“We are not taking a position that there is anything here, or there isn’t,” CPD Cmdr. John Thomas told a CNN reporter covering the event. “Rather we’re taking a position that it is our obligation as police officers to conduct this investigation as responsibly as we can.”
CNN and other news outlets would broadcast live reports throughout the day. And Thomas would provide updates to the 75 or so media members standing outside the barricade – about 35 yards away from the fenced-in yard.
In the afternoon – based on the results of the morning ground scan, which Thomas said found two key spots in the soft earth – the CPD dug two holes. And although the dig was sheltered from public view by the tent, the crowd anxiously awaited the results.
However, after a two-week Super Bowl type media circus, Cmdr. Thomas ended the late-afternoon drama with his last progress report.
“We found a glass marble, a flattened sauce pan, a two and a half-foot length of wire, a large chunk of concrete and a preponderance of roots in both holes,” said Thomas, who would later hold the No. 2 job in the department. “We are done. This part of the investigation is now closed.”
Asked if the search represented the final chapter in the Gacy story, Thomas – who passed away unexpectedly in 2003 at age 53 – said, “It does as far as the Miami address is concerned.”
The media and the crowds present at the dig on that cold November day, and the millions around the world who followed the investigation on TV and in the papers, couldn’t help but feel a little disappointed – the whole thing was much ado about nothing.
But years later – amid allegations that the CPD was “committed to not finding anything,” and the investigation was simply a “dog and pony show to satisfy the media,” and after taking a closer look at the days leading up to the CPD Miami dig on November 23, 1998 – questions still linger about the significance of the Miami Avenue site and its role in the possibly unfinished horror story authored by John Wayne Gacy.
Chapter 6: Gacy-Miami Part Two
Coincidentally, the origins of the 1998 CPD Gacy-Miami investigation are connected with another famous Chicago-area mass murder known as the Brown’s Chicken massacre.
On January 8, 1993, two men robbed and murdered seven employees at the Brown’s Chicken restaurant in Palatine, Illinois, a Chicago northwest suburb.
The case remained unsolved for nearly nine years until Juan Luna and James Degorski were charged with the crimes in 2002. Both were eventually found guilty and received life sentences.
In 1997, the Better Government Association – concerned about the Palatine Police Department’s inability to solve the crimes – commissioned a study into the department’s progress and later released a report that determined police “radically mishandled the case.”
But before the Brown’s Chicken report was finalized, the BGA met with private investigator Bill Dorsch to discuss its findings.
Dorsch, who served as a CPD officer from 1970-1994, remembers meeting with BGA chief investigator Mike Lyons and CBS investigative producer Doug Longhini at the BGA’s downtown Chicago office.
“After a while, we went across the street on Michigan Avenue and had something to eat,” recalls Dorsch, who currently heads Chicago-based NLIS Investigations. “We talked about some cases I’d worked on over the years and I eventually got around to telling them about knowing Gacy and seeing him in 1975 at the Miami address around 3 a.m. holding a shovel.
“I told them I reported the information to the Cook County Sheriff’s Office after Gacy’s arrest in 1978, but found out many years later that they never investigated the site,” Dorsch says.
Intrigued by Dorsch’s story, the BGA eventually decided to hire US Radar, a New Jersey-based company that specialized in ground-penetrating radar.
On October 7, 1998, US Radar president Ron LaBarca used a sub-surface radar device, which resembles a snow blower, to conduct a non-invasive partial ground scan of the small blacktop parking lot and front yard at the Miami Avenue apartment building.
After receiving the results of the earth X-ray, which LaBarca said were “compelling,” the BGA turned the information over to the CPD.
Dorsch, who was now the main contact between the BGA and the CPD, also put together a four-page report that summarized events to that point and included notes on Gacy’s suspicious activity at the Miami address back in the ’70s.
Dorsch says he intended his report to be used as a starting point for the CPD to obtain a search warrant if necessary for the Miami property.
After receiving the information from the BGA and Dorsch, the CPD set up a meeting with Dorsch at IFPC Worldwide, a private security and investigation services firm in Chicago.
IFPC was run by Jim Fruin, a 30-year veteran of the Chicago Police Department who retired as a detective division commander in 1991.
Dorsch, who had worked as a homicide detective under Fruin, joined IFPC in June of 1998 as a private detective.
Fruin says he encouraged Dorsch to work with the CPD on the Gacy-Miami investigation because he thought it was a high-profile case that would be good publicity for IFPC.
Fruin also told Dorsch he spoke with his friend – CPD First Deputy Supt. John Townsend, the department’s second-in-command – about the BGA’s preliminary investigation of the Miami site, and Townsend, who passed away in 2004, was very supportive.
Dorsch, who has boxes of files from previous cases he’s worked on over the years, kept detailed notes of the meeting – which was held on Wednesday, October 28, 1998.
The following account – which also includes subsequent meetings and events leading up to the CPD dig on November 23, 1998, at the Miami Avenue property – is based primarily on Dorsch reading his notes over the course of several interviews.
***
Present at the first meeting were Dorsch and Chicago Police Department officers Sgt. Frank Cappitelli, Detective Bob Rutherford, Detective Eddie Dickinson, Lt. Ralph Barganski and Cmdr. John Thomas.
IFPC president Jim Fruin, BGA chief investigator Mike Lyons and Rocky Rinaldi, a former CPD homicide sergeant who worked at IFPC and was involved with the case, stayed downstairs while Dorsch and the others met in a second floor IFPC conference room.
“We all took our seat at a large table,” says Dorsch, who received the Police Officer of the Year award twice from the Chicago Chamber of Commerce. “I had a four-page report which I distributed to each of them. This included all the information I considered pertinent to bringing them up to speed on the new Gacy information.”
After about 10 minutes, Dorsch asked if there were any questions. And based on his notes, Dorsch says he had the following conversation with Sgt. Cappitelli:
Cappitelli: Who else knows about this?
Dorsch: If you mean who else have I told this to over the past 20 years, then a lot of people have heard the story Frank.
Cappitelli: No, I mean who else knows about our meeting with you?
Dorsch: No one, except the BGA and our IFPC office.
Cappitelli: What do you intend to do now?
Dorsch: I’m just giving you the information for your review and you can contact the radar company to discuss the findings. This is possibly very important evidence that may necessitate that the site be scanned in the future.
Cappitelli: What’s the agenda of the BGA?
Dorsch: They’re not a threat. They’re merely assisting by paying for the radar scan and we are presenting this as new evidence for your review. They do not have any agenda and are not looking to create a problem for anyone.
“At that, Frank, speaking for the others, arose and said that they would be in touch with me,” recalls Dorsch, who now began to sense there might be a problem.
Around noon on Monday, November 9, a second meeting was held. And again it took place at the IFPC office.
Present were Dorsch, Cappitelli, Rutherford, Dickinson, Barganski, and Cook County assistant state’s attorney Anna Demacopoulos. Cmdr. John Thomas, who was at the first meeting, did not attend.
Dorsch says he looked forward to talking with assistant state’s attorney Demacopoulos because the pair had worked together on past homicide cases that resulted in convictions.
But before entering the second floor conference room, Dorsch’s optimism quickly faded.
“I pulled Rutherford aside before we went up and asked him to fill me in on what they had learned. Rutherford said, ‘Bill, we are here to take notes. We were told not to talk to you.’ Dickinson stood next to us and said nothing. Now I really knew there was a problem,” says Dorsch, who received 12 department commendations and 148 honorable mentions during his 25-year career with the CPD.
“After we sat down in the conference room, I asked Anna Demacopoulos where she wanted to start,” Dorsch says. “She said I should start wherever I wanted. So I said why don’t we start with the four-page report that I’d given the police. She said, ‘I’ve already seen that bullshit. What I want to know is what was the date you called the Cook County Sheriff’s Department and who did you talk to?’”
Dorsch says that Demacopoulos’s tone, body language and her question along with the fact that the others sat there silently told him that he was in for trouble. “It was obvious to me that someone, somewhere was having a big problem with this Gacy information,” Dorsch recalls.
Dorsch says he took a deep breath and looked around the table and said, “‘Anna, this happened in December of ’78. The news was reporting a man, who lived on Summerdale, had been arrested for murder. In the first few days, reports were coming in that this man was an independent contractor. And my wife and I realized this was John Gacy.’”
Dorsch, who once had dinner at Gacy’s house because his wife was a business associate of Gacy’s, says he told Demacopoulos that he called the Cook County Sheriff’s Department within a few days after Gacy’s arrest to report the 1975 late-night shovel encounter at the Miami address – but he didn’t remember the exact date of the call and could only confirm that he spoke with a male officer.
Dorsch says Demacopoulos, currently a Cook County Circuit Court judge, pressed him on the name of the person he spoke with and the date of the call.
“I said something like, ‘Anna in the mid ’80s, I had two guys come to my house every day. They tore up my old roof and replaced it with a new one. They were up there for days. I wrote them a check for $5,000 and I don’t remember their names. There’s no reason to treat me like this,’” Dorsch said to Demacopoulos, who did not return calls or emails seeking comment.
After the meeting, Dorsch says he had a sick feeling in his stomach as he felt things were turning against him.
“I had thought – as Jim Fruin had already told me – that Townsend said we could expect nothing but cooperation from the Chicago Police Department,” Dorsch says. “And I’m not just an average citizen giving this information, I had been one of them. And Rutherford was a friend. He had stayed at my house in Wisconsin with his family for two weeks. And now, he won’t even talk to me?”
A request to interview Rutherford, who is a detective with the Chicago Police Department, was declined by the CPD’s Office of News Affairs.
***
The next day – Tuesday, November 10, 1998 – Dorsch says things went from bad to worse after receiving a 9:30 p.m. phone call from Jim Fruin’s wife, Gloria.
And based on his notes, Dorsch says he had the following conversation with Gloria Fruin:
Gloria: Jim wanted me to call you to warn you.
Dorsch: Warn me about what?
Gloria: The Tribune is running the O’Brien Gacy story tomorrow.
Dorsch: Gloria, I told Jim we didn’t want this made public yet. It’s not good for my reputation, Jim’s reputation and his company.
Gloria: Jim said that he and the company aren’t going to be mentioned.
John O’Brien, a well-known Chicago Tribune crime reporter who passed away in 2003, met with Jim Fruin at IFPC’s office on November 5th.
The pair were good friends and Fruin says he might have shared some details of the Gacy-Miami investigation with O’Brien. But if he did, it was with the understanding that O’Brien would sit on the news until he gave him the OK.
However, before Fruin gave him the OK, the Tribune ran O’Brien’s story six days later on November 11, 1998.
Dorsch says he was furious.
“I wanted to keep things quiet because I didn’t want to create a problem for the Miami building owner and I didn’t want the search to become like the Geraldo Rivera Al Capone’s vault fiasco,” Dorsch says. “But after the Tribune story comes out, all hell breaks loose.
“The media goes to the Chicago Police Department and the CPD tells them ‘Bill Dorsch is an experienced detective. He never told us about the incident with Gacy. Why did he keep it a secret all these years?’ Bullshit. Bullshit all the way. Of course, I told everyone back then. And now they’re implying I’m making this up,” Dorsch says.
Mike Lyons, who was the chief investigator for the Better Government Association from 1979-2000, says after the story was leaked to O’Brien, the integrity of the Gacy-Miami investigation was fatally compromised.
“Disaster is an understated word when it comes to the leak,” says Lyons, a former Vietnam combat correspondent. “I didn’t appreciate the magnitude of the problem until a day or two after the story ran because it wasn’t on the front page – it was not that big a story. But it unleashed a media fury, and there was nowhere to go from there. It literally killed the investigation.”
After the Tribune article was published, Dorsch says he was swamped with requests for interviews.
He turned all of them down except two – he spoke with Chicago CBS 2 reporter Carol Marin and Newsweek reporter John McCormick on November 13, 1998.
Dorsch says he told them about the 3 a.m. shovel incident with Gacy in 1975 and how he reported the information to authorities after learning of Gacy’s arrest.
He also said his call probably slipped through the cracks due to the enormity of the Gacy investigation, but at the time he just gave the facts and went on with his life – he had cases of his own to worry about and assumed his tip would be checked out.
Dorsch added it wasn’t until many years later that he learned the Cook County Sheriff’s Office didn’t follow up on his tip.
Meanwhile, the media reported the Gacy-Miami building connection like it was the third-act twist of a James Patterson novel.
And in the 12 days between the O’Brien Tribune story on November 11, and the CPD dig on November 23, serial killer John Wayne Gacy was once again headline news.
And the new story angle, “Are there more Gacy victims?” played not only in Chicago, but across the globe.
The Better Government Association said they received more than 250 calls from news outlets around the world.
“I never thought of it as a huge case, so I was surprised by the media reaction,” says Terry Brunner, the executive director of the BGA at the time. ”I thought that Gacy was kind of a dead issue. I thought we had some interesting information and it seemed like a logical case to get involved with, but I was stunned by the media frenzy.”
The media spotlight was intense and former BGA chief investigator Mike Lyons says there was a tremendous amount of pressure on the CPD to do something.
“We are still interviewing people,” police spokeswoman Lauri Sanders told the Associated Press the day the O’Brien Tribune article came out.
And a week later on November 18, police spokesman Officer Cesar Guzman announced to the media that a dig was planned for Monday, November 23, but the Miami Avenue site would be barricaded from the public.
“If they do find anything that’s down there, it’s a crime scene, and its got to be treated with kid gloves,” Guzman said. “The last thing we want to do is have a circus.”
Lyons, who says he distanced himself from the Gacy-Miami investigation after the Tribune story came out because “nothing was under our control from that point onward,” believes the widespread media coverage backed the CPD into a corner.
“Once the story got into the Tribune, the CPD had no options at all – they had to dig holes,” Lyons says. “The police can’t say ‘Well gee, we’re not going to do anything.’ You can’t take an adversarial position with the media and the BGA and expect that it’s going to work out, especially when we’ve got so much suggestive evidence.
“I think they went and did it because they figured they had to do something. You have to feed the lions no matter what. So that’s what they did,” Lyons says.
Also during this time, Dorsch claims he began receiving indirect threats from CPD officials who would use mutual friends to deliver the warnings.
Dorsch says Rocky Rinaldi – the former CPD homicide sergeant who worked with Dorsch at IFPC – was usually the go-between.
“Rocky and I had a very good friendship through our time working together over the years,” Dorsch says. ”But as good as it was, I always knew that Rocky had friendships that were more important to him because they were with the higher command – Townsend, Daley, that group, the people on top. Those were his better friends.
“One day Rocky told me, ‘If you show up on the day of the dig, they are going to arrest you.’ I said, ‘Arrest me for what? For wanting to help? For being involved in this?’ I guess they didn’t want me to talk to anybody, to reporters,” Dorsch says.
Dorsch adds that he didn’t attend the November 23 Miami dig, but not because of the threats.
“At that point, I felt the investigation had evolved into a dog and pony show to satisfy the media,” Dorsch says. “And I knew what the headlines would be – ‘Waste Of Time,’ ‘CPD Angry That Detective Created Hoax.’ The whole thing was staged.”
***
Dorsch’s cloak-and-dagger account of the days leading up to the CPD Miami dig might seem a bit exaggerated. And Dorsch’s former CPD boss Sgt. Frank Cappitelli, who was in charge of the Gacy-Miami investigation, says, “Bill Dorsch was a good detective, but he may have bought into the story too much. Sometimes you can lose perspective on a case.”
But a June 6, 2008, email from now retired Rocky Rinaldi to former friend Dorsch, who initially emailed Rinaldi asking about inside information he may possess about the 1998 Gacy-Miami investigation, seems to add weight to Dorsch’s story.
“…I ignored advice from high ranking police department bosses to keep away from you… Information given to me regarding Gacy was privileged and I am not about to compromise my confidentiality that I was entrusted with by my very good friends.”
Rinaldi responded to a request for an interview by sending a February 3, 2010 email that stated in part:
“…Dorsch while he was a fair investigator, had the propensity to embellish his reports, while he never revealed how he obtained the information that Gacy buried bodies at the Miami address location, other than Gacy may have worked at that location as a janitor, however, I am satisfied that there never was any bodies buried and/or secreted at this location.”
“I have spent 34 years on the Chicago Police Department, twenty eight of those years in the homicide division and I stake my reputation on the fact that there were no bodies buried at the Miami address by Gacy or anyone else.”
Former Better Government Association executive director Terry Brunner – who served as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in Chicago before leading the U.S. Department of Justice organized crime units in Cleveland and Pittsburgh – says he believes Dorsch and feels he was viewed as a potential threat by the CPD and the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office.
“The Chicago Police Department and the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office are riddled with politics so their reaction was probably, ‘What does Dorsch really want here? This is an old case – dead and buried – everybody forgot about it – why is he stirring up trouble here?’” Brunner says.
“They can’t believe you have truly independent people that are just calling the shots straight,” Brunner continues. “This is typical to the Chicago Police Department circle-the-wagons mentality. And they don’t need to be told this could hurt politically with the mayor. They know that. It’s like a no-huddle offense.”
But why is Dorsch talking about it now?
“After the thing, I was so fed up with it,” Dorsch says. “I wanted to distance myself from the investigation because the whole thing turned political. And I was being tagged as the cause of everything. But now I want this out there. I’m 67 years old. I could go to my grave and nobody would ever know what happened there. Or I can make it known.”
What Dorsch wants known is not only his story, but information he believes supports his allegations.
US Radar president Ron LaBarca, whose company was brought in by the Chicago Police Department to scan the Miami property for the November 23, 1998 Gacy dig, wrote a letter to Bill Dorsch voicing his frustration with the CPD’s investigation of the site.
It references Dr. Jon Dittmer, a ground scan expert who was working with LaBarca that day, Frank Cappitelli, the CPD sergeant assigned to the investigation, and the executive director of the Better Government Association Terry Brunner.
Below is a copy of the May 10, 1999 letter.
May 10, 1999
Dear Bill,
Per our conversation, I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss some of the questions that remain unanswered and what information we can offer should the West Miami Street site become available for a proper investigation.
I have looked at the archived radar data twice since that debacle. The first time was a week later when I learned it was on that famous day in Chicago (November 23, 1998) when Jon Dittmer told Frank Cappitelli and later, Terence Bruner that we should “forget it,” he said that because “it was really no way to conduct a proper investigation” and the Chicago authorities were “committed to not finding anything.”
I can’t emphasize enough the fact that we, (Dr. Jon Dittmer and myself) were basically thrown into a situation where the protocols for a proper forensic investigation were clearly thrown out the window.
Because of this, Jon felt we were wasting our time and the longer we spent out there, the worse it could potentially be for us. The main deviation for proper investigation protocol was that any subsurface anomaly from our data should have been excavated no matter how slight. Instead as Jon asked the following, “Do you realize you are standing on a front lawn with well over 100 cameras pointed at you while you negotiated, then pleaded with the Chicago police sergeant to dig for more than two holes.”
In a proper investigation, the authorities would have been more willing to excavate any possibility. It still strikes me as quite odd that we suspect at least seven and as many as seventeen potential targets in the front lawn and the parking area and the Chicago PD would only let us pick two. Hey, maybe all of them are nothing, but at least then they would know. Instead we all are wondering what might have been discovered had they investigated the property properly.
The next time I looked at the data it was several months later when a reporter started asking me some questions that rekindled the frustration we encountered with this investigation. As a result, I have pretty good knowledge of this data as well as more than a few questions I would like answered.
The data reveals some pretty compelling evidence that would send any investigation team to the hardware store for shovels. I can’t help but wonder if this data might fetch a good buck or two somehow on the Internet.
Another question I’d like answered was, “why is it that the Chicago PD personnel nearly jumped out of their skin when we went around the back of the building (opposite W. Miami) and kept repeating over and over that back there was not part of the deal?” What deal?
I have many more questions with respect to this investigation but I suppose the answers lie with members of a political circle somewhere. Should we ever get the opportunity to properly complete this investigation, then and only then will we get the answers.
Bill, you once you told me that you didn’t really care whether there were victims buried at this site or not, you just wanted to know definitely yes or definitely no. Well, like or not, I got caught up in your enthusiasm and with some of the other evidence we were working with, I was anxious to resolve this thing. Well here we are, after all that, we still don’t have any answers, and I find it more than just a little aggravating facing the possibility that we may never know.
Let me say this much, I have the radar data from this investigation and actually Bill, I am about 89 per cent sure that I have the answer, unfortunately it doesn’t mean a thing until someone decides to dig.
I will be standing by to assist you in any way that might bring this investigation to a close once and for all. This company is solidly behind your efforts and will gladly commit any available resources to you for the proper conclusion to the investigation of the West Miami Street property.
Sincerely,
Ron LaBarca
***
LaBarca says US Radar has worked with the FBI and many other law enforcement agencies around the world on forensic investigations including Ground Zero after 9/11, but he and colleague Dr. Jon Dittmer – who has a Ph.D. in geophysics – were baffled by the 1998 CPD Gacy-Miami investigation.
“The CPD did a great job of coordinating the investigation at the Miami site,” LaBarca says. “But, we’ve done many similar type of forensic investigations both before and after the Chicago dig and we’ve never experienced the complications we encountered on that day.”
However, former CPD Sgt. Frank Cappitelli, who received numerous commendations and awards including the Cook County Sheriff’s Police “Award of Merit” during his 31-year career with the CPD, says that US Radar’s allegation that the CPD was “committed to not finding anything” is “absolutely not true.”
“If the US Radar team had a problem with the investigation they never mentioned it to us,” says Cappitelli, who is currently the commander, field services division, for the University of Illinois at Chicago Police Department.
“We conducted a detailed section-by-section grid search of the front yard, and we investigated the two highest anomalies – recommended by US Radar – and we did a careful archaeological dig that was supervised by the Cook County Medical Examiner and a forensic archaeologist,” Cappitelli continues.
“And we found a flattened saucepan and a marble in those two holes…So with the agreement of US Radar, the onsite experts including the medical examiner, the forensic archaeologist and the assistant state’s attorney Anna Demacopoulos, we concluded the search,” Cappitelli says.
US Radar’s LaBarca says that’s not entirely accurate.
“Sgt. Cappitelli asked us how many targets we had and, to the best of my recollection, we flagged 17 areas that merited further investigation,” LaBarca says. “He said pick our best two and if nothing was found that would be the end of the investigation.
“This is where the rub is – all anomalies should have been investigated. The bottom line is, there were 17 areas that merited further investigation and 15 of them didn’t get investigated,” LaBarca says.
LaBarca adds that he and Dittmer didn’t even witness the dig because they were not allowed inside the CPD tent and were taken to the airport immediately after the first hole was dug.
And LaBarca says they found out the result of the second excavation while watching the news in a pub near O’Hare Airport.
The Chicago Tribune reported in a November 24, 1998 story that “several other radar experts said they wouldn’t want to work under the pressure-filled conditions created by the Gacy dig and that an accurate interpretation of the scan results requires at least 24 hours to analyze the data.”
Patrick Jones, a retired Cook County Sheriff’s Office crime scene investigator who has 40 years of law enforcement experience, agrees.
“You can’t do a ground scan survey in the morning, analyze the results over lunch and then start digging in the afternoon,” says Jones, currently the director of the Forensic Science Laboratory at Purdue University.
“Also, to say at the beginning we’re only going to look at two anomalies, that’s not in line with the scientific method,” Jones continues. “If they just searched two of the 17 suspicious areas, then there was only a 12 percent chance that they would find anything.”
But why didn’t LaBarca voice his frustration onsite or talk to the media afterwards?
“I was actually asked by a BGA representative not to go any further with it until he cleared me to do so,” LaBarca says. “And I felt I had an obligation to the BGA. I felt that they would work this thing out. I didn’t think it wasn’t going to end where it did. And we were also strongly advised by a CPD official not to discuss the investigation.”
Former BGA chief investigator Mike Lyons, who didn’t attend the excavation, believes digging two holes was essentially meaningless – but it was a clever maneuver by the media savvy CPD.
“Where is the magic in the number two or three or five,” says Lyons. “There is no magic. They were just doing it to get it out of the way. And that’s exactly what they did – they got it out of the way.
“And if I were their public relations advisor, I would of advised them to do the same thing – which is limit your exposure, take one or two sites and let the whole thing go,” Lyons says.
Gacy prosecutor Terry Sullivan, who attended the dig, says he was under the impression that the CPD conducted a thorough investigation of the Miami site.
“I didn’t know the authorities said pick two spots and we’ll do some digging there,” says Sullivan, who heads The Sullivan Firm and is also a legal analyst for WGN-TV.
“You have experts with the most modern high-tech equipment and they come up with multiple hot spots so to speak,” continues Sullivan. ”And the CPD says investigate two, and then leaves the others? How is the investigation ever closed and how do you know whether or not there were any bodies there?”
***
In the aftermath of the CPD dig, the Associated Press reported that well-known Chicago personal injury lawyer Robert Clifford called the investigation “a fiasco,” and blamed the Better Government Association for “throwing the media into a frenzy.”
Former CPD Sgt. Cappitelli says attorney Clifford became involved with the case when the CPD advised the Miami apartment building owner to meet with Clifford regarding representation.
And after meeting with Clifford, the building owner agreed to sign a CPD consent to search form. Otherwise, the CPD had to file a search warrant application to conduct the onsite investigation of the Miami property.
According to the November 24, 1998, AP article, Clifford stopped short of threatening a lawsuit against the BGA and Bill Dorsch saying, “We’re throwing a good scare into them and trying to make these people do the right thing and publicly apologize to these people for the trouble they’ve caused.”
Dorsch says he called Clifford and welcomed a lawsuit.
“I wondered why he was not expecting an apology from the Chicago Police Department and the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office too,” Dorsch says of Clifford, who declined to be interviewed for the story.
“They had been conveniently left out,” Dorsch continues. “And I found it strange the CPD selected the attorney that they encouraged the owner to use to protect his property rights.
“Most people, including the media, didn’t realize the BGA and myself had no control over this event,” Dorsch explains. “We were only private citizens bringing this information to the CPD and the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office for review. They are the ones who decided to excavate, not us.”
Chapter 7: Why?
After reviewing the allegations that the CPD was “committed to not finding anything,” and the Gacy-Miami investigation was simply a “dog and pony show to satisfy the media” – and after taking a closer look at the days leading up to the CPD Miami dig on November 23, 1998 – the question, “Why would the CPD conduct such a seemingly incomplete investigation?” is not without merit.
Former executive director of the Better Government Association Terry Brunner says the CPD, the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office and city officials were concerned about the agenda of the BGA.
“We had been real tough on some past investigations and I think I had a reputation for being really tough,” Brunner says. “The 1997 report on Brown’s Chicken ripped the Palatine Police Department and Cook County State’s Attorney Jack O’Malley.
“I’m sure they look at everything in a political sense and they don’t believe you’re just being up front and honest with them. It’s Chicago and everything is political one way or another,” Brunner says.
Also during this period, the BGA was heavily involved with another high-profile investigation related to politician George Ryan, who eventually received a six-and-a-half-year sentence for racketeering and fraud while serving as the secretary of state (1990-1998) and governor of Illinois (1998-2002).
“I think they were very wary of me, they were wary of the BGA,” Brunner says. “I don’t think that Daley got involved personally. But the way the system works is they’re constantly circling the wagons and they don’t want any outsiders looking in. They can’t stand the media, the BGA or anybody looking into anything because they’re afraid of being embarrassed.”
Brunner adds that the intense media scrutiny surrounding the case and the potential for negative publicity were certainly factors that influenced the CPD’s investigative efforts.
Clifford Linedecker, author of the book The Man Who Killed Boys (St. Martin’s Paperbacks 1993), agrees that Chicago city officials were probably worried about a potential backlash if anything was found, especially since many people felt the CPD blew the original Gacy investigation – by not conducting an investigation in the first place.
“Shortly after the Gacy crimes were discovered, the media and the parents of some of the victims were looking for someone to blame,” says Linedecker, a former Chicago investigative reporter who now lives in Florida. “It was difficult to understand how so many murders could occur in one place, apparently at the hands of one man, over such a long period of time.
“Even more puzzling was how it could happen under the nose of what was ostensibly one of the largest, most sophisticated, best-equipped, and well-trained police departments in the country,” Linedecker continues. “Chicago police were publicly criticized for negligence, and named in lawsuits.”
However, Cappitelli, who headed the 1998 Gacy-Miami case, says he didn’t receive any pressure on how to conduct the investigation.
“Nobody came to me from anywhere and said ‘Back off’, or, ‘Don’t find anything,’” says Cappitelli, who holds a Ph.D. in public policy analysis from the University of Illinois at Chicago. “This was the straight deal.”
Former BGA official Mike Lyons says the CPD didn’t want to deal with the case or the BGA from the start and adopted an adversarial position early in the investigation.
“Frank Cappitelli is a detective of tremendous intelligence and tremendous integrity, but we were on opposite sides of the issue,” Lyons says. “He believed, or his bosses believed, that we were there to harm the police, which was not true. We were following one damn fine story. And it’s still a damn fine story. A story that has yet to be told.”
Chapter 8: Gacy-Miami Connection
Although it’s been more than 13 years since the CPD officially closed the Gacy-Miami case, the details of the investigation remain murky and have left many questions that resound to this day.
But, the only question that really matters is the one that prompted the investigation – “Did John Wayne Gacy use the Miami property to dispose of other murder victims?”
Despite the fact there may never be a definitive answer, a closer look at the connection between Gacy and the Miami apartment building might help shed some light on the mystery.
***
Sometime around 1971, Gacy became the maintenance man for the Miami Avenue building according to Lynn Troester – a resident of the Miami apartments from 1967 to April of 1974 – and Mike Nelson – a neighbor who lived across the street from 1959 to the early ’80s.
Troester said during a 1998 videotaped interview with the Better Government Association that she saw Gacy and his crew dig large holes in the yard and other areas near the building.
“They weren’t actually holes, they were just big spaces, more like trenches,” recalled Troester.
“There was no pattern – he would dig and leave them open for several days or even weeks,” Troester continued in the BGA interview. “Then one day, the space would be filled in with a shrub or something. But I don’t remember ever seeing him do the planting. We all thought – the other people in the building – that it was very strange.”
Nelson, who was born in 1959 and served as sort of a junior maintenance man for the Miami apartment building from around 1971 to 1976, says he distinctly remembers the digging because he and his friends used to jump the holes when they were kids.
“The trenches were dug on the outer edges of the yard that followed the sidewalk,” says Nelson, who would mow the lawn, take out the trash, and shovel the drive, as part of his job. “It was one continuous trench that was ‘L’ shaped, but the ‘L’ wasn’t connected. There was a large bush on the corner that they didn’t dig up.”
Looking back, Nelson says he has several questions regarding Gacy’s odd pattern of digging.
“Why would you dig that deep to pull out these little two-foot bushes,” asks Nelson, who has never been interviewed about the case until now. “And why would you dig that deep to plant new ones that were only around a foot tall? Also, why dig trenches anyway since they were spacing the new bushes about four feet apart?”
Nelson, who remembers seeing Gacy at the Miami building quite often, says the holes were left open for a couple of weeks and then one day they would be filled in. And like Troester, he never saw Gacy or his crew do the planting.
Terry Sullivan, who is considered to be one of the foremost experts on Gacy, says the irregular digging was an earmark of Gacy and certainly fit his M.O.
“The fact somebody is saying that he dug holes, and by the way, they didn’t have any rhyme or reason, that certainly is something that hits me in the head because very few people would know what I know about this,” says Sullivan, who spent five years researching Gacy for the trial and his book Killer Clown (Windsor Publishing 1983).
“And why would he be digging in the yard,” Sullivan continues. “That’s the million dollar question because Gacy was not known as a landscaper. I don’t remember anything that he ever did in his business that was related to landscaping.”
Lynn Troester also said on several occasions she and husband Bruno Muczynski, a Chicago Police Department detective, would wake up late at night because of noises coming from the basement.
“Our bedroom wall was against the basement because we lived in the garden apartment,” Troester said during the 1998 BGA videotaped interview.
“Bruno and I would be sleeping and at two or three o’clock in the morning we’d hear the basement door slamming against our bedroom wall,” Troester continued.” And Bruno would get up and look out and say it’s John.
“At the time, you just don’t think he could be doing anything sinister,” Troester said. “But you do think why is he down there, what is he doing? But you never asked. John was just different. He was a different person.”
In June 2012, Bruno Muczynski confirmed Troester’s story in a video interview with documentary producers Alison True and Tracy Ullman of Norwester Productions. The interview is available on the site JohnWayneGacyNews.com.
“He [Gacy] was the maintenance man for the building, but he’d come around at night and he’d go into the laundry room across from my apartment,” said Muczynski. “And I’d hear banging and digging…with a sledgehammer, he’d be pounding the concrete down there.”
Muczynski also said he contacted the detective division handling the Gacy investigation with this information shortly after the bodies were discovered.
“I told them who I was…I said I knew Gacy and I told them the things that were going on around the building,” said Muczynski. “And they said, ‘Bruno, we don’t want any more bodies. We got enough.’ I was sort of shocked. I thought they’d want to do everything…to get closure.”
Mike Nelson says he remembers a couple of unusual things about the basement, which Ron LaBarca says was “never in the equation to be scanned” by US Radar during the CPD Miami dig on November 23, 1998.
“Every week back then, I would take the basement garbage to the curb for trash pickup,” says Nelson. ”One day, I remember noticing a space down there had been filled in with concrete and I thought that was strange. Also, the basement window was blacked out so you couldn’t see in.”
Dr. Louis Schlesinger, a professor of psychology at John Jay College of Criminal Justice who specializes in serial killers, says you can’t overestimate the significance of Gacy’s job as a maintenance man for the Miami apartment building.
“First of all, most maintenance men don’t black out the windows of the buildings they’re working at,” Schlesinger says. “Having said that, in the context of a maintenance man, Gacy had a way to explain what might be seen as unusual behavior.
“For example, somebody may have asked him why he was digging and he could say a pipe broke or something, which would not arouse the suspicion of the residents,” Schlesinger continues. “He may have been viewed as a little different, but he appeared very normal. And so, he could easily give you an explanation and you’d say, ‘Oh, OK.’”
Gacy’s mother also had ties to the Miami property.
Marion Elaine Gacy lived and worked as the superintendent in the apartment building for a period of time in the ’70s, most likely from May 1972 to early 1975.
***
Robert Ressler said in his book, Whoever Fights Monsters (St. Martin’s Press 1992), that Carole Hoff, Gacy’s second wife – married in 1972, divorced in 1976 – would ask Gacy about the wallets of young men that he had in the house, but Gacy said it was none of her business and she dropped it.
Hoff also told police in 1978 that around November of 1972, she began to notice Gacy bringing young men to their Summerdale garage late at night, sometimes spending hours with them.
Looking in the garage once, after Gacy had driven off with a boy, she found a mattress and a red light on the floor.
Bill Dorsch believes Hoff’s story is significant because Gacy had already committed his first known murder in January 1972, and if Gacy needed a convenient off-property burial site, Miami was a great option.
“He’s bringing kids into his garage late at night, and then he’s leaving with them,” Dorsch says. “How do we know that the kids aren’t brought to that garage – sexually assaulted in that garage – killed in that garage – then the bodies are put into his car and driven to Miami?
“At the time, it was difficult for Gacy to use the crawl space in his home because his family was living with him,” Dorsch continues. “So, Miami was perfect for him – he had a reason to be there and it was only four miles from his house.”
Dorsch’s theory is even more compelling when comparing a timeline of Gacy’s 33 known murders with the dates he worked as the maintenance man for the Miami building:
*Jan. 3, 1972 – March 1976 – Gacy kills three people over a four year, two-month period
Key Fact: When Gacy lives with his family, average time between his known murders – 500 days
*April 1976 – Dec. 1978 – Gacy kills 30 people over two year, eight-month period
Key Fact: When Gacy lives alone, average time between his known murders – 32 days
*1971 – 1976 – Gacy is the maintenance man for Miami apartment building in Chicago, a position he holds from approximately 1971-1976 according to neighbors and former residents
Key Fact: Gacy has access to a site only four miles from his house
“I find it hard to believe that Gacy only used his property and the river to get rid of bodies,” says Patrick Jones, who worked on the original Gacy case as a crime scene investigator with the Cook County Sheriff’s Office.
“Why couldn’t he have had a third dump site,” Jones continues. “We know Gacy liked to keep his victims close, so if he was the maintenance man for the Miami property that would be ideal for him to use because it was close and he could visit any time he liked.”
Terry Sullivan says the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office investigated several other possible Gacy murder sites, but it had no idea about the connection between Gacy and the Miami location before the 1998 investigation.
And Sullivan, who attended the CPD dig at Miami, says the site piqued his interest.
“It was a very unusual sort of a lot,” recalls Sullivan. “It intrigued me when I got there, especially since it was quite a small place and because it was in the kind of neighborhood that Gacy was from – the working middle class.
“And I thought if he had access to the property or if he had known somebody who lived there, or was doing work there, it would have been very easy for him to use the site. It fit right in to everything,” says Sullivan.
***
Although the official case reports of the 1998 CPD Gacy-Miami investigation couldn’t be located by the administrative staff of the CPD or the Cook County State’s Attorney’s Office, below is a copy of the search warrant application for the Miami property dated November 16, 1998.
Written by CPD Detective Eddie Dickinson, the document summarizes the collective work and opinion of the CPD officers who worked on the 1998 Gacy-Miami investigation up to that point.
In addition, the report – which has never been made public until now – concludes that the CPD believed “there are buried human remains located at (address deleted) W. Miami.”
AFFIDAVIT OF DETECTIVE EDWIN M. DICKINSON
I, Edwin M. Dickinson, being duly sworn under oath, hereby state as follows:
1. I am a Chicago Police Officer and have been so employed for the past 25 years. I am currently assigned as a Detective to Area Five Detective Division of the Chicago Police Department.
2. On 28 October 1998, I interviewed Mr. William Dorsch, a retired Chicago Police Officer, who stated that he had information as to the location where numerous victims of John W. Gacy may be buried. Mr. Dorsch indicated that he had suspicions for many years that John W. Gacy may have buried bodies at a residential apartment building at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois. Mr. Dorsch related that prior to Gacy’s arrest, trial, and conviction as a serial killer he had seen Gacy with a shovel at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois at approximately 3:00 A.M. Mr. Dorsch further related that Gacy was a caretaker for (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois during the years of 1972, 1973, and 1974. Mr. Dorsch submitted the name of the owner of this building during the time in question and one of the tenants of this building.
3. Mr. Dorsch also related that he recently contacted U.S. Radar Inc., of Matawan, New Jersey to conduct a ground penetrating radar search of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois.
4. On 7 October 1998, in cooperation with the Better Government Association (B.G.A.), Mr. Dorsch and U.S. Radar Inc., conducted a covert non-invasive ground penetrating radar partial search of the yard and blacktop surrounding (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois. Mr. Dorsch stated that the results of this non-invasive search indicate six anomalous data points that are consistent with buried remains. Mr. LaBarca, of U.S. Radar Inc., has submitted a written report confirming these findings.
5. Mr. (name deleted) was confirmed through Cook County Records to be the owner of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois during the years in question. Mr. (name deleted) was interviewed and confirmed that John W. Gacy had access to the property during the time frame in question and had done maintenance work on this building. Mr. John W. Gacy was confirmed to have done cement work in the basement of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois.
6. Ms. Lynn Troester was interviewed and confirms that she rented an apartment in the building located at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois during the years in question. She further confirmed that John W. Gacy had access to the building and surrounding grounds of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois and acted as a maintenance man during the years in question.
7. Ms. Troester further confirmed that John W. Gacy had been known to conduct nocturnal excavations in the yard and blacktop areas of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois.
8. Chicago Police Officer Bruno Muczyniski, currently assigned to the 15th District, was interviewed and stated that during the time in question he was married to Ms. Lynn Troester and resided in an apartment unit located at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois. Officer Bruno confirmed that John W. Gacy acted in the capacity of a maintenance man at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois during the years of 1972, 1973, and 1974. Officer Bruno also confirmed that John W. Gacy was observed excavating on this property during various times of the day and night.
9. Mr. John Ignoffo was interviewed and he stated that during the time in question he lived at (address deleted) W. Miami which provides a direct northerly view of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois. Mr. Ignoffo stated that he was approximately ten years old at the time in question and remembers that John W. Gacy had dug a three foot deep trench contiguous with the Miami Ave. sidewalks. Additionally, Mr. Ignoffo stated that his mother (deceased) had told him that she had observed John W. Gacy performing nocturnal excavations with plastic bags filled with unknown material. Mr. Ignoffo further related that his mother told him that John W. Gacy performed cement work under the back stairs of the building and in the laundry room of the basement.
10. Mr. Ron LaBarca, U.S. Radar Inc., of P.O. Box 319, Matawan, New Jersey, 07747 was telephonically interviewed and he confirms, that on 7 October 1998, he conducted a noninvasive partial search with remote sensing geophysical instrumentation (commonly referred to as surface or ground penetrating radar), of the yard and blacktop area contiguous to (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Illinois at the request of Mr. Dorsch and the Better Government Association.
11. Pursuant to this technical inspection of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois with remote sensing geophysical instrumentation (commonly referred to as surface or ground penetrating radar) by Mr. Ron LaBarca, of U.S. Radar, discovered that there are six subsurface anomalies that are not consistent with surrounding soil, are similar in size, shape, and dept for the evidence being sought and have a significant expectation for yielding additional forensic evidence. It is necessary to excavate these anomalies to fully evaluate their evidentiary value.
12. Mr. LaBarca further stated that he then had this data evaluated by Geophysicist Dr. Jon Dittmer, of ERA Technology and Michael Blain of U. S. Radar Inc. Mr. LaBarca indicated that his evaluations of the data obtained at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois were confirmed by Geophysicist Dr. Jon Dittmer and Michael Blain.
13. Based on the facts of my investigation to wit: John W. Gacy had access to (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois and acted as a maintenance man; he had been known to conduct nocturnal excavations; he is the most prolific known serial killer in the State of Illinois; his method of disposing of his victims is identical to actions he was observed to perform at (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois; and there is credible scientific evidence to believe that the possibility exists that human remains are buried in the yard and black top contiguous to (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois; I believe that there are buried human remains located at (address deleted) W. Miami, Cook County, Chicago, Illinois. Consequently, based on this information I respectfully request that a Search Warrant be issued for the recovery of buried human remains located on the property of (address deleted) W. Miami, Chicago, Cook County, Illinois.
______________________________________
Detective Edwin M. Dickinson
Subscribed and Sworn to Before Me This 16th Day of November, 1998, A.D.
_______________________________________
Judge of the Circuit Court of Cook County
***
After reviewing Gacy’s ties to the Miami apartment building, the question arises – “Should authorities reopen the Gacy-Miami investigation?”
Ross Gardner, a former felony criminal investigator with the U. S. Army Criminal Investigation Command and currently a crime scene analyst with Bevel Gardner & Associates, believes the connection between Gacy and the Miami building is clear, but conducting a definitive search to determine if any bodies are buried on the property is extremely challenging.
“The real question lies with how much effort the authorities are willing to extend in this closed investigation and how supportive the owners of the Miami building are to such an investigative effort,” Gardner says.
“Even with experienced forensic investigators employing all of the available technologies – magnetometers, ground penetrating radar, or infrared thermography – finding a clandestine grave is not guaranteed,” Gardner continues. “Assuming these non-intrusive search techniques locate areas of interest in the basement, under pavement, or on the grounds – ultimately, it will require an intrusive physical excavation. But, only at a significant cost and with significant effort.”
Chapter 9: Gacy’s Legacy
Although the depths of his crimes may still be unknown, Gacy has had a profound impact on countless lives, including the police officers who broke the case in 1978.
“It was a nightmare that has never gone away,” says former Des Plaines detective Joe Kozenczak, who was 38 when he led the investigation.
“It affected all of us and left scars – emotional and professional scars,” Kozenczak continues. “The horror and the overwhelming anxiety and stress of working the case was very difficult to deal with, even for veteran police officers.”
Rafael Tovar – the last Des Plaines officer who worked on the Gacy investigation before retiring in 2009 – echoes Kozencak’s sentiments.
“Occasionally, I’ll look back at the photos of what we were doing – digging through muck up to our knees, decaying flesh in our bare hands, with no masks or special uniforms,” Tovar recalls.
“We didn’t think it would affect us, but it did,” Tovar continues. “And every year after that, all the guys who were part of the dig would meet once a year for dinner and drinks – that was our therapy to each other in dealing with the horror of the case.”
Gacy, who turned down handwritten requests for interviews from Oprah Winfrey and Truman Capote, is still a pop culture icon of evil today.
British journalist William Cash wrote about Gacy’s cult of personality for a 1994 story in the Daily Mail:
Part of the fascination with Gacy is that his case was one of the first to alter the public consciousness about serial killers. He was one of the first to attract frenzied media coverage, which served almost to turn him into a lone, outcast, folkloric hero. In prison he received more than 27,000 letters, to which he replied to by hand. Like many serial killers, Gacy has enjoyed having his ego massaged by media attention. In this respect, the American media cannot be accused of having let him down.
***
The Gacy murders struck a blow at the heart of Chicago – the diverse, well-defined, tight-knit communities that make it one of the most vibrant cities in the world.
And Gacy’s legacy of torture and bloodshed will forever stain the Windy City, which has seen more than its fair share of grisly crimes during its famously sordid past.
But the thought that the nightmare is not over – that there may still be other Gacy victims waiting to be discovered in another quiet family neighborhood – is almost too disheartening to imagine.
A current resident at the Miami apartments says she is aware of the building’s link with the nation’s most prolific serial killer.
“My boyfriend and I would definitely prefer to live someplace else,” says the resident, who declined to be named. “But we pray all the time. I do believe that praying will help. And if there are other victims of Gacy here, I don’t think they would hurt us. They would only want help. And I’m willing to help them any way I can.”
Epilogue: Current Gacy-Miami Investigation
In March 2011, several Chicago and national media outlets reported on the new developments in the Gacy case – based on “Unfinished Nightmare” – but most failed to credit ShadowReports or myself as the source.
However, WGN-TV was one of the few news organizations that did credit ShadowReports with breaking the story in its March 17, 2011, report – “More Gacy Victims?”
As a result of the ShadowReports article and related follow-up stories, there was renewed interest in the Gacy case.
In October 2011, Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart officially reopened the Gacy case. Below is part of a Nov. 1, 2011, article from USA Today – “Reopened John Wayne Gacy case could lead to more victims.”
Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart has reopened the Gacy investigation in hopes that DNA testing unavailable at the time of the murders can help identify eight victims whose names were never known. Their remains have been exhumed.
A re-examination of evidence turned up airline tickets and other documents that have prompted new inquiries into unsolved murders in 14 states and Canada where Gacy traveled during his six-year killing spree.
Already, the reopened case has solved one longstanding mystery: Harold Wayne Lovell, whose family concluded he was one of Gacy’s victims after his 1977 disappearance, turned up alive in Florida. He has reunited with his siblings.
…Dart says four or five detectives are working almost full-time on the case.
Terry Sullivan, a Chicago lawyer who helped prosecute Gacy, says that “even in death he’s like an octopus” whose tentacles extend far beyond the suburban Chicago home where he murdered most of his known victims.
…Sullivan says. “I have always said that there is a strong possibility that there were other victims,” he says. “The pressure has got to be kept on law enforcement to continue this.”
According to WGN-TV, Dart says the Cook County Sheriff’s Office is also following up on the 1998 Chicago Police Department Gacy-Miami investigation.
WGN-TV reported the CPD would not comment on the Gacy-Miami investigation and referred inquiries to the Cook County Sheriff’s Office after the ShadowReports article and related follow-up stories were published / broadcast.
In December 2011, Dart told WGN-TV that his office will be presenting new evidence to a judge to get a search warrant at some point in 2012 for a possible new search of the Miami grounds with more advanced radar equipment.
On March 30, 2012, the Chicago Tribune reported Cook County State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez denied Dart’s request to seek a search warrant for the property, saying the sheriff’s office does not have probable cause — sufficient information that the search will produce evidence of a crime — to obtain a warrant.
In June 2012, Dart was interviewed by documentary producers Alison True and Tracy Ullman of Norwester Productions for the site JohnWayneGacyNews.com.
“If, at the end of the day, they turn us down again…the public will always wonder whether or not there was bodies there,” said Dart. “Whereas, if we were able to go ahead and do it, we could put it to rest – this has been thoroughly examined, there is nothing here.”
On July 16, 2012, WGN’s Larry Potash reported that Dart has resubmitted his request for a Miami property search warrant to the Cook County State’s Attorney`s office.
On January 11, 2013, Cook County State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez approved the Cook County Sheriff’s Office request for a search warrant. Details about the new search are pending.
Anyone with additional information about the Gacy case is asked to call the Cook County Sheriff’s Office at 1-800-942-1950 or go to their site at http://www.CookCountySheriff.com.
Appendix – Exclusive Gacy Timeline
John Wayne Gacy was convicted of 33 murders – 27 bodies buried under his house, one body each under the concrete in his garage and patio, and four bodies dumped in the river. All his victims were young men in their early teens to early 20s.
Perhaps the most compelling information that can help shed light on the Gacy-Miami mystery is a timeline of Gacy’s life from 1968-1978.
The timeline, an “Unfinished Nightmare” exclusive, suggests that if Gacy committed other murders, he probably committed them between 1971-1975.
And the timeline also suggests that if Gacy used the Miami property to dispose of bodies, he probably used it between 1971-1975.
1968-1978 Gacy Timeline
*March 1968 – Gacy sexually assaults two teenage boys and is sent to prison in Iowa
Key Point: Gacy’s first arrest for violent sex crime, victims live
*June 18, 1970 – Gacy paroled from prison and moves to Chicago to live with his mom
Key Point: Gacy arrives in Chicago
*Feb. 1971 – Chicago teenage boy claims Gacy sexually assaulted him, charges later dropped
Key Point: Gacy’s second arrest for violent sex crime, victim lives
*Aug. 1971 – Gacy and his mom buy Summerdale house located just outside Chicago
Key Point: Gacy has a big-city base of operation, but he lives with his mother
*1971 – Gacy becomes the maintenance man for Miami Ave. apartment building in Chicago, a position he holds until at least 1975
Key Point: Gacy has control of a site that is convenient for him to dispose of bodies, located only four miles from his house
*1971 – According to Miami Ave. building junior maintenance man Mike Nelson, the basement windows at the Miami apartment are blacked out during the time Gacy worked there
Key Point: Gacy has control of a site that is convenient for him to dispose of bodies and he is blacking out the basement windows
*Jan. 3, 1972 – Gacy murders victim #1, Timothy McCoy, in his Summerdale home
Key Point: Gacy’s first known murder, buried on his property
*June 1972 – Gacy charged with battery after a young man says Gacy flashed a sheriff’s badge, lured him into Gacy’s car, and forced him into sex, charges later dropped
Key Point: Gacy’s first arrest for violent sex crime after committing murder, victim lives
*March 1972 – Carole Hoff and her two daughters move in with Gacy and his mom
Key Point: Gacy has four people living with him at his Summerdale house
*May 1972 – Gacy’s mom moves out of Summerdale home and moves into Miami apartments
Key Point: Gacy is not only the maintenance man for Miami building, now his mom lives and works there as the building superintendent until around spring of 1975
*June 1, 1972 – Gacy and Carole Hoff get married, Carole’s mom moves in with the couple
Key Point: Gacy has four people living with him at his Summerdale house
*November 1972 – Carole Hoff begins to notice Gacy bringing young men to their Summerdale garage late at night – garage windows are blacked out and sometimes Gacy spends hours there – Carole also discovers a mattress and a red light on the floor one night after Gacy drives off
Key Point: Gacy uses garage for likely sexual activity and then drives off late at night
*Around 1972 – 1975 – Carole Hoff asks Gacy about the wallets of young men that he has in the house – Gacy tells her it is none of her business and she drops it
Key Point: Possession of wallets is strong circumstantial evidence that Gacy committed a crime to acquire them
*Summer 1973 – Gacy gets a court order to evict his mother-in-law
Key Point: Gacy now has three people living with him at his Summerdale house
*Sometime between 1972 – 1975 – Gacy murders victim #2, body is unidentified
Key Point: Gacy’s second known murder, buried on his property
*1975 – Gacy’s mom moves out of Miami apartment building and moves to Arkansas
Key Point: Gacy loses a family contact at the Miami building
*July 31, 1975 – Gacy murders victim #3, John Butkovich, in his Summerdale home
Key Point: Gacy’s third known murder, buried on his property
*February 1976 – Carole Hoff and her two kids move out of Summerdale home
Key Point: Gacy now lives by himself
*April 1976 – Dec. 11, 1978 – Gacy murders victims #4 through #33, all killed in his Summerdale home
Key Point: Gacy is killing more frequently
*December 1977 – Gacy kidnaps teen boy at gunpoint and commits sexual assault
Key Point: Gacy’s first known violent sex crime after he commits multiple murders, victim lives
*March 1978 – Gacy lures a young man into his car, chloroforms him, takes him back to his Summerdale house, rapes and tortures him, but eventually lets him go
Key Point: Gacy’s second known violent sex crime after he commits multiple murders, victim lives
*Dec. 11, 1978 – Gacy murders victim #33, Robert Piest
Key Point: Gacy’s last known murder
Timeline Summary & Conclusion
*Aug. 1971 – February 1976 – Gacy lives at Summerdale house with family
Conclusion: Gacy has people living with him, so it’s difficult to use house as burial site
*1971 – Gacy becomes the maintenance man for Miami Ave. apartment building in Chicago, a position he holds until at least 1975
Conclusion: Gacy has control of a location to dispose of bodies, only four miles from his house
*Jan. 3, 1972 – Gacy murders victim #1, Timothy McCoy, in his Summerdale home
Conclusion: Although he may have killed earlier, no doubt now that Gacy is a lethal predator
*May 1972 – Gacy’s mom moves out of Summerdale home and moves into Miami apartments
Conclusion: Gacy is not only the maintenance man for Miami building, now his mom lives there and she is also the superintendent for the building
*November 1972 – Carole Hoff begins to notice Gacy bringing young men to their Summerdale garage late at night – garage windows are blacked out and sometimes Gacy spends hours there – Carole also discovers a mattress and a red light on the floor one night after Gacy drives off
Conclusion: Gacy appears to be engaging in sexual behavior that seems to be consistent with his past and future sexual patterns
*Around 1972 – 1975 – Carole Hoff asks Gacy about the wallets of young men that he has in the house – Gacy tells her it is none of her business and she drops it
Conclusion: Possession of wallets is strong circumstantial evidence that Gacy committed a crime to acquire them and fits his future pattern of keeping his murder victim’s wallets
*February 1976 – Carole Hoff and her two kids move out of Summerdale home
Conclusion: Gacy now lives by himself and has more opportunity to kill
*Jan. 3, 1972 – March 1976 – Gacy kills three people over a four-year, 2-month period
Conclusion: When Gacy lives with his family, average time between his murders – 500 days
*April 1976 – Dec. 1978 – Gacy kills 30 people over two-year, 8-month period
Conclusion: When Gacy lives alone, average time between his murders – 32 days
*1971 – 1975 – Gacy is the maintenance man for Miami Ave. apartment building in Chicago, a position he holds until at least 1975
Conclusion: Gacy has the opportunity to dispose of bodies at a low-risk site located five minutes from his house
Acknowledgments
I would like to thank Roosevelt University professor Anne Marie Cusac, who taught the magazine writing class where the story first took shape – her advice and editing contributions were invaluable.
Roosevelt University journalism professors Linda Jones and Shonda Dudlicek, who both helped edit the book.
Alison True for her belief in the story.
Larry Potash and Mike Wilder for their journalistic integrity.
Matt Weller for his encouragement.
Also, others who provided support and advice include: John McCormick, Clifford Linedecker, Marsha Bartel, John Drummond, John Kass, Todd Musburger, John McClelland, Jesse Katz, Tony Kern, Dave Pieper, Tony Pietrczak, Nathan Stange, Tam Dillman, Jeff Kiko, Dave Fischer, Ted Wellman, Tom Wellman, Terry Phillips, Mike Smucker, Kyle Rafferty, Mike Clark and Bryan Smith – his non-fiction features in Chicago magazine have been an inspiration.
A very special thanks to Frank Cappitelli, Bill Dorsch, Ron LaBarca, Mike Lyons, Terry Sullivan and Joseph Kozenczak.
Also, thanks to the men and women of the Chicago Police Department, Cook County Sheriff’s Office and other law enforcement officers around the country who risk their lives every day.
Secondary Sources
The Associated Press, “Dig for Gacy victims planned for Monday,” November 19, 1998.
The Associated Press, “List of Gacy’s Victims,” May 9, 1994.
The Associated Press, “Radar Hints Of New Victims Of Mass Killer,” November 12, 1998.
Assuras, Thalia. “Chicago Police Find No More Of John Wayne Gacy’s Victims,”CBS Morning News, November 24, 1998.
Bierschenk,Ed. “Reportrips Palatine police in murder probe,” Copley News Service, November 20, 1997.
Brown, Andrea. “Last Des Plaines investigator on Gacy case stepping down,” Chicago Tribune, September 30, 2009.
Burns, Terry. “Gacy killed dozens, and maybe was ‘good for more than 33,’” 1994.
Cash, William. “Ringside At An Execution,” Daily Mail London, May 11, 1994.
Chamberlain, Charles. “Prosecution Calls Gacy “Worst Of All Murderers,” The Associated Press, March 11, 1980.
Cosgrove-Miller, Bootie. “Inside A Killer’s Mind – Gacy’s Brain And Beyond: A Doctor Explores World Of Serial Killers,” CBS News, May 10, 2004.
Davis Patty. “Chicago Mayor Daley poised to Rush back into office,” CNN, February 23, 1999.
Driscoll, Paul. “Anyone With a Brain Knew This Was Not a Runaway,” The Associated Press, May 9, 1994.
Flock, Jeff and Waters, Lou. “Police Search for More Victims at Gacy’s Mother’s Apartment,” CNN, November 23, 1998.
Flock, Jeff and Lin, Carol. “Police Search Gacy Victims,” CNN, November 23, 1998.
Howlett, Debbie. “Search renewed for Gacy victims,” USA Today, November 23, 1998.
Jacobson, Walter. “John Wayne Gacy: The Mind of a Serial Killer,” WBBM CBS 2, May 1992.
Keen, Judy. “Reopened John Wayne Gacy case could lead to more victims,” USA Today, Nov. 1, 2011.
Kozenczak, Joseph and Henrikson, Karen. The Chicago Killer. Xlibris 2003.
Krishnamurth, Madhu.“Des Plaines police investigator recalls working infamous Gacy case,” Daily Herald, October 1, 2009.
Linedecker. Clifford. The Man Who Killed Boys. St. Martin’s Press 1980.
Lohr, David. “Boy Killer: John Wayne Gacy,”
CrimeMagazine.com, August 5, 2001.
Maier, Frank and Matthews, Tom. “Double Life of a Clown,”Newsweek,January 8, 1979.
Marin, Carol and Wigdahl, Heidi. “John Wayne Gacy’s Final Secret,” NBC Chicago, May 12, 2009.
Mayer, Cynthia. “On Death Row, Time Is Running Out,”The Philadelphia Inquirer, April 17, 1994.
McCormick, John.“Digging Up The Past – Did John Wayne Gacy Kill More Than We Knew?”Newsweek, November 23, 1998.
Miller, John. “Playing With Predators,”ABC News, July 15, 2000.
The Montreal Gazette, “Did Gacy kill more?” November 14, 1998.
Morrison, Helen and Goldberg, Harold. My Life Among Serial Killers. Avon Books 2004. “Police Search Yields Nothing in Gacy Case,” The New York Times, November 24, 1998.
O’Brien, John. “Dig Planned at Chicago Site Tied to Gacy,”Chicago Tribune, November 11, 1998.
Ressler, Robert and Shachtman, Tom. Whoever Fights Monsters. St. Martin’s Paperbacks 1992.
Ressler, Robert and Shachtman, Tom. I Have Lived in the Monsters. St. Martin’s Paperbacks 1997.
Robinson, Mike. “High-tech hunt prompts dig for more Gacy victims,” The Associated Press, November 11, 1998.
Robinson, Mike. “Police Seek Chicago Killer Victims,” The Associated Press,” November 23, 1998.
Robinson, Mike. “Hunt for Gacy victims proves ‘a big case over nothing,’” The Associated Press, November 24, 1998.
Sullivan, Terry with Peter T. Maiken, Peter. Killer Clown – The John Wayne Gacy Murders. Windsor Publishing 1983.
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About the Author
Chris Maloney is a Chicago-based freelance writer and producer. He won the 2009 Golden Key Literary Achievement Award in news writing and has been published in Shape, Hustler,The Huffington Post, PGATour.comand Yahoo! Singapore – a homepage feature story.
In January 2011, he launched ShadowReports.com, a digital media site that publishes original investigative reports and unique feature stories.
Maloney also recently published the eBook, Eaten Alive: Five Killer Croc Attacks (Amazon 2012). In addition, he is writing the hardcover children’s picture book, Bronco the Pizza Delivery Dog, which will be published in 2013.
Previously, Maloney was a writer and producer for Boatyard, Classic Boat and Cruising The Great Lakes - three weekly marine series produced for the national cable networks Outdoor Life (currently NBC Sports) and Speed.
He has an M.A. in Integrated Marketing Communications from Roosevelt University and a B.A. in journalism from the University of Dayton.
***
[...] exclusive story – “Find The Bodies If You Can: Should The John Wayne Gacy Case Be Reopened?” – is the result of six months of research by freelance writer [...]
I do believe that there are bodies there still. The evidence is too clear to be overlooked. And I hope that they will eventually reopen the case and work on it. Even if nothing much comes of it at least if identification is possible the families might finally find peace in the death of their loved ones.
Don’t give up on this, there’s too much clues to overlook it again.
This is a very long article…long on extraneous detail and woefully short on information. Not terribly compelling, it is very much like the aforementioned Geraldo/Al Capone vault story…a real bust.
Your personal issue with the author is meaningless and should be disregarded by anyone reading this article.
Keep your bias to yourself and deal with the content presented. Your personal feelings are not relevant.
Your personal issue with Jay is meaningless and should be disregarded by anyone reading this article.
Keep your bias to yourself and deal with the content presented. Your personal feelings are not relevant.
Agreed- this author needs to present the info better.
jay…..100% wrong. This is an amazing piece and it may be just the thing that will FINALLY urge Anita Alvarez to do something.
Frances, I can only agree. After reading Chris’ article, I was inspired to do further research. It’s the real deal and Anita Alvarez is going to have to reckon with the facts. The building at Miami and Elston could very well be the site of more bodies from John Wayne Gacy’s killing spree. Feel free to see the research myself and Alison True have done at johnwaynegacynews.com.
IF there is any doubt that he “might” have buried someone there then the families deserve the effort to do an investigation. Period. It’s their job and it’s their duty to the families who have not had closure.
The question remains, why would they not?
It’s obvious that there is something there. 3 am with a shovel? that alone is more than enough.
It’s sad that those seeking political cover go to such lengths to misrepresent what happened, and keep those who died hidden.
Jay, you wouldn’t be a shill for them, would you?
If there is ANY chance that there still may be bodies buried at the Miami location, then a complete, unobstructed, and untainted investigation is in order. It is truly a shame that proper evidence might be disregarded because of political bullshit and the embarrassment of receiving a failing mark for the original investigation by the CPD. Nobody really knows what the truth is regarding all of the parties involved, yet, if there are bodies to be found, the families of these victims have a right to know for the sake of closure.
Well done, I was fascinated reading this from start to finish. The answer is yes, they clearly should be doing more to see what may lurk in the Miami apartment. The question is why have they not…a bit strange one would think.
[...] EXCLUSIVE – Find The Bodies If You Can: Should The John Wayne Gacy Case Be Reopened? John Wayne Gacy’s alter ego, Pogo the Clown. John Wayne Gacy. [...]
I think this is complete crap. I was hooked by the press release and came to the site to see what I thought would be an “investigative story.” What I found was a (poorly written) novel excerpt that I couldn’t stomach for more than a coupla paragraphs. Bill yourself as what you are, or your clever marketing hook will be for naught, since many, like I, will never return.
Speculation is just a thought experiment that cannot be tested with logic or fact. Anyone can speculate anything, fun, but not very useful. Dorsch, apparently got a lot of service for an uncorroborated decades old story. If his evidence was so convincing, he should have followed it up during his years as a detective when he was duly vested with the authority to do so. This entire account, based on the real evidence, not speculation, should be relegated to the trash bin of fantasy.
My mom use to receive alms and she went to John Gacy’s house before they knocked it down she said the world will never know exactly how many men and boys Gacy killed. But she did say that she feels he killed over 50 men and boys and because he had a construction company and did various construction jobs she said that the concrete slab patio Gacy once had he laid himself had bodies under it and other people’s houses that he did concrete work for not just parking lots. Let me know if I can help in any way
Lynn, what does this mean: “My mom use to receive alms…”?
Thank you Lynn. This monster was truly all over the place and how can this be closed if there is 8 bodies unidentified!
Very well written and researched!
The latest movie,”Dear Mr. Gacy” is based on the fictional writings of Jason Moss’s book.
I suspect Mr. Moss himself was also gay and was obsessed with contacting serial killers because he was a similar murderer of young gay men.
He admitted it to John Gacy.
Don’t ask how I know this because the story will be too long.
Jason Moss committed suicide.There is a good reason he did.
I doubt the police will find any bodies in the front yard or parking lot. Why would he bury bodies in plain view where someone could walk by or look out a window. The police should look in the basement of this building or in a heavily wooded area nearby.
Funny, years ago i was at the forest preserves near cumberland and irving park road and stumbled across two mounds in the ground six feet long. My first thoughts were american indians or gacy victims. I never pursued it thinking i wouldnt be taken seriously.
Who knows how many gacy victims there really are as there are so many forest preserves near his house that could be a very convenient burial sites.
i lived in the miami garden apartment in 1975 with my family. i will be curious to hear more.
Thanks to the author for the provocative read. It does sound like there’s plenty of circumstantial evidence for this to be investigated further – more digging to find more potential victimes. Not only is this the proper thing to do for relatives of past victims, but also otherwise questions will always linger about whether additional victims are buried there.
We’re in a new era in Chicago – new mayor, new police chief, new commitment to honesty in government and ethics, etc, etc, I think that it’s the right thing to do…
I think that even if a private company can be hired to see if there are victims bodies on the property and leave the police department out of it until they find remains.
I as far as serial killers I read, watch movies and documentaries, and anything I can find about them and I own alot about them I also read Ressler’s books maybe I’m obsessed with serial killers also. I can look at pictures of true crime evidence as in dismembered bodies and eat at the same time.
I have to say not because I’m gay myself but Gacy he is one of my favorites so is Dahmer, Bundy, BTK, and many more the most evil ones you can imagine. I know what they have done but I try so hard to get in to and wonder what’s in their heads but to me it’s a big puzzle and not all the pieces can be found.
a friend of mine told me one time is Jay since you are into real true crimes esp. serial killers you should have been working with the police in the homicide dept.
Everyone needs to put their egos aside, and dig up the grounds and basement of the apartment complex. The dead deserve to have a resting place besides being thrown into a trench. The families also need closure. If I were the owner of the property, I would insist upon this. I could not go about my business while being haunted with the thoughts of bodies being burried everywhere. The police need to stop blaming each other. Gacey was an evil man and is, of course to blame for all of this. You could not pay me to live in that building.
I truly believe with all my heart that this location holds the answer to my brother’s disappearance in early 1972. Please don’t let this go. I know I am not the only family of a missing person who is yearning to find closure. Time after time I’ve been shot down and dismissed by the Des Plaines Police Dept and the Cook County Sheriff’s Dept. For 40 years I have followed every possibility of where he could be but have always believed in my heart that Gacy was the answer. I am dying myself from Pulmonary Fibrosis and if there is only one thing that I could cross off my bucket list, this would be it. I pray that your efforts not be in vain and that you will have the final vindication and the undying gratitude of those families who will finally be able to have closure. On behalf of myself, whether this pans out for me or not, and others looking for answers, Thank-you for your time and interest in doing the right thing for strangers you don’t know. May Hid bless you mightily for it.
S/b God, not Hid…. sorry….
Wheeled Snow Shovel…
Aw, this was an extremely good post. Finding the time and actual effort to create a good article… but what can I say… I put things off a lot and never manage to get anything done….
Does anyone else remember Gacy and his associates in South Hanover Township/ South Bartlett / Northern Wayne Township area? Specifically centered around and close to Shick Road. Sometimes it was Gacy alone in a light green sixties Olds station wagon, and then later he was in a mid sixties black repainted Olds Delta 88. Other times he was with his “associates”. Other times his associates were there without Gacy. To keep my word, I won’t name the places, but 3 of the places involved remote small bodies of water and the remote land around them. I am 99.9% certain I stood on a grave. And this was just a few feet from where Gacy was standing, and there were more smelly dug up spots as well. The stink was there in several areas. I ran into him and/or his associates at least a dozen times and rode in his car once. I have way too much to report in this post. Does anyone else remember Gacy and/or his associates being there?
For over 30 years I have been telling people about some of the events in the post above. I told a few police departments 3 years ago. The post above from “none” on July 4th 2012 is my first public announcement of a few of these events. At least 2 of Gacys associates escaped justice, one of the reasons is that they often worked on thier own. I am not sure sure of the 3rd guy because I only saw him once and he completely ignored me. Whereas the other 2 associates and Gacy did not ignore me. Additionally many families were denied closure. Is there any way to circulate the above post?
In my opinion another reason the associates escaped justice is because 2 major landscaping construction projects took place in Gacy and his associate’s remote stomping grounds. This unfortunately happened to occur around the same time as the Summerdale cleanup at Gacys house. What happened was the police invited the media to camp out and attend the Summerdale cleanup which unfortunately turned out to be the most time consuming and documented cleanup ever. It was described as a media circus. While the police and the media were tied up for months at Summerdale, 2 major areas where Gacy and his associates hung out for years were unfortunately starting to be dug out, drastically changing the landscape and inadvertently destroying years of evidence of Gacy and his associates. By 1980 everything was completely changed in those 2 areas. This unfortunate coincidence, in my opinion, may have allowed the associates to escape and may have presented other problems as well.
In my opinion another reason the associates escaped justice is because 2 major construction projects took place in the areas mentioned above that happened to occur at the same time as the Summerdale cleanup at Gacys house. What happened was the police invited the media to attend the Summerdale cleanup which turned out to be one of the most time consuming and documented cleanups ever. While the media and the police were tied up for several months at Summerdale cleaning up Gacys house, 2 major areas were being dug out by hundreds of feet in the same exact areas where I had seen Gacy and his associates. These 2 areas being dug out were the same 2 areas where I had often seen Gacy and his associates. Sometimes Gacy was alone, sometimes the associates were alone, and sometimes they were all together. These areas were completely changed by 1980. This unfortunate digging event helped to allow the associates to escape justice and raises many questions as well.
[...] I posted the 16,000 word eBook to my site ShadowReports.com so journalists / reviewers would have quick access to it. shadowreports.com/2011/02/07/exclusive-find-the-bodies-if-you-can-should-the-john-wayne-gacy-case-be… [...]
[...] at the Chicago Reader at the time), and all declined to use it, so Maloney published the story on a website he created for that purpose. He’d planted a seed. I couldn’t forget what I’d [...]
Here is what happened in a nutshell. I am tired pussyfooting around with 30 pages of documents and maps which were given to the police for the last 2 years. The 2 dress alike, act alike, brown haired guys (associates of Gacys) were pretending to fish (with their metal rods) the eastside creek next to the quarry, whacking people with metal rods on the path on the east side of the Deep Quary Lake in Wayne Township of Dupage county before it was filled in with water, one did an air-whacking maneuver (as in air guitar)on me up by the road one day. They whacked them, then weighed them down and dropped them off the cliff into the water below in the small (1 or 2 acre) lake on the south end of the quarry. They took their car keys and stole their car. I caught one of them trying a key on my car. The key must have been for the other car next to mine. The police assumed Gacy did it. The metal rods were like the ones in Gacys trunk ( that is another encounter and another place off of Shick road). (more later).
The 2 brown haired dress alike, act alike, associates of Gacys dropped them off the cliff into the small south end lake. One day I was on the eastside path and I heard a sound coming from the lake that sounded like a 200 pound man doing a cannonball dive from way up high. I left real fast. I was a kid. I tried to swim in that lake once and brushed up against something that caused me to leave real fast. There were also spots of foul smelling disturbed ground where digging had occurred on the topside of the east wall of the quarry. There were several of these areas on the east wall where the brush had been cleared away. I ran into Gacy standing near the dig spots one day. I ran into all those guys several times throughout the years approx 1972-1979. The entire east wall was dug up at the same time Gacy was caught. All I can figure is the police secretly followed them there, or someone talked. According to the Dupage county forest preserve commission that really have no idea why it was dug out, they only offered a guess as to why this entire east wall was dug out from one end to the other. Where are the bodies that the police pulled from the lake and where are the victims that the police dug up? Who exactly came up with the historical idea that Gacy actually moved bodies? Think about it, that’s a lot of work and why would Gacy do this? Who was the man that came up with that idea? Who came up with the idea tht Gacy weighed the bodies down and dropped them from “bridges”, who was that man? (more later).
I meant who exactly came up with the historical idea that Gacy actually dug the bodies back up and moved them? Think about it, that’s a lot of work and why would Gacy do this?
None… not that I dispute the validity of your story but I do have to admit that a couple if things give me pause – you posting and then asking to have it retracted and you not identifying yourself. Why so mysterious?
On another note, thanks to the efforts of a certain retired police detective, my older brother was found alive and well. I still stand strongly with this group’s effort to expose more and more of Gacy’s escapades. There are still families that need closure. Let the “egg on the face” be dammed with these PD departments and let’s get this cleaned up once and for all. No sense in leaving it to the next generation.
The police know who I am that is all that will ever be necessary. What I wanted removed was I said “the police had no reports and that included my own reports”, but they are taking my reports, of course they are. They have all been absolutely fantastic to me. I did not wish to make them mad with that incorrect statement. I recently told them, just a couple of days ago that I was going to go public and I am extremely nervous. There are some things that I said I would never tell the public 2 years ago, but I took it back because now I believe in order to catch the associates who many believe are still running around some things need to be admitted such as, at least some of the killings at that quarry, at least enough to put those associates away. I believe the 1979 police incorrectly assumed Gacy did all the killing but they were only half right. I think that the police know who these guys are from other events. There are a couple of attorneys who also know who they are. I saw those associates at that quarry way more than I ever saw Gacy, but I was usually only there during the day. Those associates were murdering thugs who murdered for money and to steal cars and who knows what else. I got away with going there for years because I was a kid who had neither car nor money. My trouble with them began when I got older and finally got a car.
Just to clarify, my troubles with the associates began when I finally got older and got a car. My troubles with Gacy began right away.
The point that I never finished making in my July posts was that there was someone on the Gacy 1979 investigation committee who told reporters and writers a few years back that Gacy had; 1) moved bodies from gravesite to gravesite; 2) weighed victims down with rocks and drowned them; 3) killed women and some older middle aged guys that the police were reluctant to pin on Gacy. That person(s) whoever they were, inadvertently described Deep Quarry where all 3 of those things happened, except the police got a few things things wrong; It wasn’t all Gacy and they let some of the bad guys get away, including Cram and Rossi.
The 2 brown haired dress alike, act alike (and I mean to the tee alike) associates of Gacys had a system where one of them was at the beginning of the path, and one was at the end of the path, both pretending to be fishing with their fake fishing poles (metal rods) As I walked down the path they both would watch you, and the one on the end of the path would scurry up the hill with his metal rod. I saw him use the “fishing pole” (really the metal rod) as a walking stick to get up the hill one day to intercept me, but I turned around. You would then be trapped with one associate at one end of the path and other guy at the other end of the path. On the west side was a cliff going down into the quarry with rocks and 2 lakes. On the east side you were trapped by the creek.
How did I manage to remain unscathed so many times from Gacy and these associates? For one I was a kid, I had my bike with me in the beginning, from 1972 to 1976, after 1976 I sometimes drove my car. I always left quickly every time I got spooked, and there were a few of the times, I would always leave the quarry right away. I also often carried a large rock pick for rock collecting, I often had a pouch of rocks I collected, a wristrocket, 2 pellet guns which was a pistol and rifle that looked like a 22. And in the end I still got in 2 hassle predicaments with the associates. And I also did wind up in John Wayne Gacys car one day, who, to make a long. story short, sweet talked me into putting my bike in his car, and took me to a place he said was a religious campground he had a job at, to meet kids my own age and to shoot balloons in the lake. When we got there he got mad because there were people there and he kept saying “why are these people here”. I later found out it turned out the place was abandoned for years prior to that day. The building stunk very very bad. He scurried like crazy to get into that building and then down to the lake. I cannot name the place because of the sensitive nature of its present use and I made a promise not to diclose the name, however I broke my promise on Deep Quarry Lake because I repeat my 2 questions. Where are the victims the police pulled from the lake, and removed from the east side wall of that quarry? Why were the associates never charged with anything? I still contend the police may have have followed them there, how else could the police have found all 3 places so fast? (More later)
The day the associates came after me on the path, David Cram was in his usual fake fishing spot, and when I turned and looked at him, he had his fishing rod pointed straight at me, I thought nothing of it, but that’s when Michael Rossi left his fake fishing position and used his metal rod as a walking stick to get up the hill and move toward the path I was walking on. I saw him behind the trees doing this. I really thought nothing of it, I wasn’t really afraid or anything, I turned around mostly because I didn’t like those guys. When I did turn around there was a guy there about in his 40’s just coming onto the path entrance. I said hello to that guy and left.
There were also days when David Cram had a real fishing pole, however I never did see Michael Rossi with a real pole, just that short fat silver rod I eventually realized was a thug club and now I believe to be a ramrod too.
There were rumors that the police secretly cleaned up Gacy murder sites with actions so secretive that even other police officials were not aware of. I firmly believe these rumors to be true.
Our families are what define us, our families are the very reason we exist, for politicians and public officials to desecrate the remains of our loved ones and condemn their physical remains to a mystery fate is beyond apprehension. For these same politicians and public officials to chose saving face over public disclosure of horrendous acts is not what people pay taxes for. The stealth actions of the individuals involved in these decisions directly resulted in cold blooded murderers to remain on our streets (the associates). To what end did it serve to save face over the safety of our families and the dignity of leaving this earth in a respectful manner? To the persons responsible for these decisions I say damn you and the horses you rode in on. –The end
Thank you for this website.
What I typed above were cliff notes on over 30 pages of documents I provided to the police. I came right out and told the police exactly what I thought, but there are no reports from the previous administrations. Whoever did this really covered their tracks. The first time I heard a loud cannonball type noise into the lake at the quarry I was up by the street and I had just got out of my car. I actually heard the boom at the street but wasn’t sure where it was coming from. I was a little older because I had a car by then. Gacys car was not there because I then walked into the Quarry, and I never went into the quarry when Gacys car was there because I was avoiding him at that time. Those 2 guys must have been weighing the victims down with a lot of rocks because the day I heard the boom up close it scared the heck out of me and I left real fast. Thank goodness they weren’t interested in me when I had a bicycle. Those 2 metal rod wielding dress alike, act alike guys murdered a lot of people by dropping their weighed down bodies into the water from the cliff top. They did the 2 victim drops I heard when Gacys car was not even there. But there was a third car there, probably the poor victims. Those 2 guys were as guilty as could be and got away with it because politicians and the police kept it a big secret. They were simple thugs who got away with mass murder because the police thought they had their perp in custody and they were only half right. Those same 2 associates were there with their fake fishing poles (heavy metal rods) for so many years (about 5 years) that I went from riding a bicycle to driving a car. The large scale cleanup operation certainly suggests a lot of victims. Aerial photographs from 1978 shows where the quarry was dug out, and it was all in the areas where Gacy and his associates were luring, clubbing and dropping victims for at least 5 years and sometime burying them too. In order to get the associates, someone will have to admit they performed a major secret cleanup and that “perhaps” they followed them there as well, but there are no reports. There is simply no one for me to ask anymore. The police today are completely baffled by my accounts. There are some people I wish I could put on a witness stand but the police will not do that to their own. What became of the victims remains may remain a mystery unless someone talks. I feel so sorry for the families of missing loved ones.
I now remember even more loud cannonball water drop booms coming from that south end lake at the quarry. One day, when I was a kid on a bike, I heard 1 or 2 water drop booms coming from the south end lake. It was strange enough for me to go over there and just stare at that lake wondering what the heck is going on with these booms. Gacys car was not parked at the entrance, because I never went in there when Gacys car was there because of my first bad experience with him chasing me as outlined in many earlier documents. Those 2 Gacy car thief associates, who dressed alike, acted alike, were thin, about 5’11″ dark haired guys with their fake fishing poles (heavy metal rods) turned that escape proof path into an assembly line of death for maybe 4 or 5 years. One at one end of the path and one at the other end, pretending to fish next to an escape proof path. They had the same type rods that I would later see in Gacys trunk. They were about 1 inch OD x 3 to 4 feet long. I am looking for witnesses who may have seen these guys on the east side path between the quarry and the creek. or heard the loud water drop booms coming from that lake in what is now Deep Quarry of Dupage County in the late seventies. Look at my earlier posts from “none” for more details. The police failed us back then and now it is time for the people to take this into their own hands. Where are the victims remains and why did the police just assume it was all Gacy and cover up a large scale cleanup operation at Deep Quarry in Dupage County? Why were these 2 Gacy associates never convicted of (what I think) were a lot of murders?
None, with all due respect, can you write your drafts elsewhere and post here the finished product? You’re cramming my email box with the same info over and over… give us a break… I’m beginning to wonder if you’re trying to convince us or yourself.
None, your comments are certainly interesting, and incredible if true.
Concerning these two associates of Gacy that may have conducted their dirty business at the Deep Lake Quarry: I’m wondering, if a good number of people went missing in this area, why wouldn’t there have been more news about missing persons at the time and searches conducted in the area?
Also, I have a hard time believing that there could have been a police coverup of such a large dig at the quarry. For one thing, why would they cover up such an event. And also, even if there was an attempt to coverup, I believe someone would have eventually talked about it, mentioned it to their family, etc….
The associates would kill them and steal their cars.
The new info in that post was yet another incident of water booms at a different time. 3 total recalled waters booms so far. It takes a long time to fully recall all memories.
Hi Cliff, Sorry I did not properly address your question before. I was very busy. Prior to the early 80′s information on all missing persons was informally kept only at local police departments. Back then there were no standard forms and no central database for missing persons. For the associates victims I believe perhaps that most victims with cars and money were probably lured there by Gacy or his associates.For Gacy victims I believe perhaps that Gacy grabbed them right off the street. He came after me from the very first time I noticed him and thats why I avoided him from early on, until the one day I wound up in his car. A luring requirement for the associates could also explain another reason why the associates fake fisherman let me slip past them so many times. A luring requirement could also explain why they plied their evil trade for about 5 years. If I would have disappeared that is one of the places people would have looked for me. They could not not risk losing their “morbid job” over a kid on a bike. Once a lured victims car was stolen or moved all traces of that person ever being there were gone. There must be others like me who also slipped by. For legal purposes I must state that these are all my own opinions.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/quarrythugmap.png/
image of area where the 2 thugs operated. capture the image quickly, this is on a free download website.
I am sorry but it is just the way the posts are working out. I am guilty of intentional flooding that much is certain. Right now though I need witnesses to the big water booms at the quarry and witnesses to the murdering thug car thieves at the quarry. It is a shame that the 1979 saving face mentality has created a stonewall situation where stealth operations has placed a statute of limitations on mass murder. That has got to be illegal in some ways.
The two dress alike act alike brown haired guys (fake fisherman) arrived in a car one day without Gacy as I was leaving the quarry. This may have been the last time I saw them so it was close to 1978. They put on gigantic earth-tone colored backpacks. They were dressed exactly alike again with the same khaki shorts, same hat (like a ball cap) etc. They even had the same exact backpacks. They were a little older now and had shorter hair. I almost didn’t recognize them because they were more clean cut looking, a year or 2 had gone by, and they were not hassling me. One of them took one look at me and quickly looked away. They helped each other put on the large heavy backpacks and one straightened the others hat. They were embarrassingly touchy feely with each other. My impression at the time was that they were gay and I was uncomfortable looking at them when I saw them grooming each other before they hiked out with their giant backpacks. After I realized I recognized them, I turned around and walked back a little and watched them hike down that escape proof path of death towards a suspicious looking spot on the cliff that I stumbled upon in an earlier year. This entire cliff top was part of the area that was dug out shortly after Gacy was caught. On this cliff top there was a small hidden area hollowed out under some small trees that I stumbled upon, a few feet from the edge of the cliff that was just large enough for maybe 2-3 people. That area was almost in the very back of the quarry. Way up high. I think there might have been water below to the small south end lake, the same lake that I heard the big splash boom that made me leave one day, the same lake with all the splash booms I heard. That same lake was also along the inescapable path of death. From inside that hollow, you could peek out between the brush and see out but nobody could see you. There were a few porno magazine pictures with other items that I can’t remember that were strewn about inside of that hollow. There were also maybe a couple hundred small white rocks about an inch long or less pushed into the soft earth. There were no other rocks in this immediate area. The dirt was shiny and well buffed. The area up there was like a farm field and the only other rocks around were in the quarry below. I think I only walked over to that hollow maybe twice, even though I was on the cliff about 4 times. It was well hidden the first couple times I was there and I didn’t see it. I only stumbled upon this little hideaway. I had seen Gacy walk towards this area once with a well dressed Blond haired guy, perhaps he was a victim or another associate. And I recently recalled the incident with the 2 associate backpackers arriving solo. Why did they have such gigantic packpacks that were over their heads? I think this hollowed out area was a preparation site for weighing down victims. Gacy and his associates were both using this site, this was their spot. It is my opinion that the police created a stealth cleanup situation that resulted in no reports, and so complete in its lack of documentation that 2 cold blooded mass murdering associates of Gacys were let off the hook and free to ply their trade, those 2 mass murdering associates were given a lifetime get out of jail free card that we taxpayers paid for. If the 1979 police say that I can’t prove this statement my response to them is “that is exactly my point, stealth cleanup job well done”. It was covered up so well that even today nothing can be done with these associates. The police today have no reports to go on. The laws need to be changed to never let this happen again.
Personally, None, I think you should sign up for a creative writing class at the local community college and do your writing there. Then when you have a polished piece, post it here. And/or see a therapist to work out the obvious issues this has caused you. Just my humble advice….
People like you are one of the reasons I never went public until now. Thank you for providing me the opportunity to point that out. Making false police reports is a major crime. Why am I still uncharged after 2 years and now 40 pages of documents? I am in constant contact with a big name lawyer. This is far from over.
I’m not trying to discourage you from sharing your story… it just sounds like you need help sorting through it all and finding peace with it before sharing it on a site like this. We’re not therapists and yet you’re asking us to go down the road, literally, on your journey with you. You keep retelling the same story over and over and filling our inboxes with it. Get it hashed out on your time and THEN share it with us. I am interested in your story – once – with all the details as best as you remember them… you’ve shared and recanted and reworded until, and I’m pretty sure I’m not alone in this, that it’s so confusing I don’t know what the facts are…. trust me, nobody wants all of Gacy’s escapades become known more than me but I admit I am having trouble coming to terms with such a huge police cover up. I’m not saying it’s not possible, I’m just struggling with it. I worked for the Village of Bartlett for years. I know those police officers and I just don’t see any of them be a party to a cover up.
Wait a minute Peggy, I haven’t recanted anything other than stating that the police were not taking my reports. They appear to be saving my emails, however I haven’t seen one document, or talked face to face with any police officer. I keep adding things thats all. Cut me some slack, its been over 30 years.
All I want are witness right now and also to get some laws changed. Trust me, all Bartlett, Wayne and Hanover officials are 100% innocent, every single one of them. I love those towns, those are my towns too. The 1979 stealth cleanup was not their call. The blame for the associates getting away goes squarely to 1979 Cook County and Dupage County head officials and maybe even one level up from there. I have 2 other Gacy encounters I will not disclose at all, and one is a troublemaking doozy, so I am not looking for trouble. I am not looking for monetary gain or my 15 minutes of fame. I am remaining 100% anonymous except to my friends, family, the police and one law firm. As far as releasing a final I cannot possiibly dump 40 pages and 5 maps into a post that is related to a still ongoing investigation. I am not the only one working on this. But I have the least resources. I have found out from a retired police officer that secret clean ups did happen in Chicago but I do not know where. But I also was told that all families are notified in that type of a situation, so I will drop my question regarding where are the victims. I have no idea how many victims were in those 2 small lakes, but nevertheless, the laws need to be changed so that 2 mass murdering thugs are never given a lifetime pass from prosecution. My full documentation only goes to the police and to one law firm. I will not give my entire story to a post or to any entity. I want witnesses and I need to repeat some things over and over until I get more witnesses. I feel that this is the correct website for now for me to to that. I will probably stop providing updates soon. You certainly have the right to tune me out on my mission of saturated exposure in my quest for witnesses and to get the laws changed. My posts may not be for you Peg, but I have done one suggestion you mentioned about the drafts.
Clarification for above- “2 other Gacy encounters” should read 2 other Gacy encounter “locations”. There were multiple incidents. I am sorry Peg but you are literally making me afraid to provide updates. Your posts are getting me upset and making me screw up by typing 100 mph. I want witnesses to Deep Quarry in Dupage County during the late seventies, not posters who think they are being asked to be therapists.
We cannot ever be witnesses – we were not there. Do your thinking, type up a draft, correct your mistakes, THEN post it on here. You do not need to post updates every half hour for events that happened 30+ years ago. I cannot just block your posts without blocking all posts… or I would. I’m not trying to scare you or keep you from sharing. What I would like you to do is be considerate of the others and our time. Stop using this as a rough draft form while you get your thoughts together. I’m interested in your story but not interested in traveling the murky water you’re going through to get to the final facts in your head.
Clarification to above “The police cordially invited “the media” to attend the Summerdale clean up that lasted many many months.”
When I am done, the only final to the public will be on this shadowreports.com site in the form of many postings. There will not be anything more, ever, to the public, besides the posts I am putting on here. I may copy them and move them to another website if I getted kicked off of here. But that is it. You are reading my finals in the form of many many posts that are only here. The full finals eventually go to the police and one law office and they are the only ones who will ever see those full finals due to certain information that must remain confidential regarding the other places. I have no idea what you are talking about regarding flooding inboxes. That is not happening to me. You must have some wierd setting on your computer triggering that.
One day when I arrived in my car. Just as I pulled in near the main path entrance. I very clearly remember seeing in the distance a large object fall from the cliff top overlooking the small south end lake. It came from about where that hollowed out preparation area was that I described above. Gacys car was not there, so this was most likely another associates victim. I am looking for witnesses who may have thought that they had seen a similar type event at Deep Quarry during the late seventies, or heard the splash cannonball booms, or seen the fake fisherman, all as described above. I think this will be my last post for a while. I will look for replies and questions if any. You can also find Gacy accomplice press release information at http://www.beckerstephenson.com/press.html.
Peg I owe you an apology. I am finally going back and looking at what I did, and what a mess I have made.
It’s ok…. I really am looking forward to seeing where this goes. And I hope you get some help working through the scarring this has all left on you. It’s a shame that there is such evil in this world and so many innocent people get damaged from the havoc it creates. My prayer is that every single victim be found and that all the families get some closure. And I pray that EVERY victim, be they direct or indirect, get the healing they need so they can move on. Hang in there, None.
I don’t necessarily see that None has any scarring. He’s obviously been rehashing alot of memories and trying to get his thoughts in order though.
I actually haven’t seen in any of the reading, however, that None has witnessed any murder, or ever saw a body. There does certainly sound like a lot of odd situations and odd persons there, especially if they were associates of Gacy. But, I’m still having trouble trying to decipher how much of this is from the creative and imaginative mind of an adolescent/teenager and how much from reality (None, how old were you when you were witnessing these things?). I haven’t heard None mention anything about seeing a body, seeing blood, hearing screaming, etc… or anything of that nature (thankfully)…
It’s certainly easy to speculate on what some people were doing at the quarry, For instance, items being dropped from the cliff top into the lake: Might it have been pieces of junk or rocks? I think if somebody were attempting to hide a body it would be alot less conspicuous if they slid the body in the lake from a boat… And why would some bodies be buried at the cliff top and some bodies be thrown into the lake? If they’re trying to ensure the bodies wouldn’t be found, wouldn’t they all be sent into the lake? Seems pretty inconsistent. Not trying to “debunk” you None, just bringing up some preliminary thoughts after doing some reading.
I wonder how deep is this Quarry Lake? Do people ever do scuba diving there? They would potentially see something unusual if there was something unusual to be seen…
Hi Cliff, Last July you said I never actually seen a murder? Well yes I have. All those people who I described laying down motionless, or perched up motionless waiting to be dropped or who disappeared after being accosted by Cram and Rossi were all victims. I made artwork of some of these incidents I had seen. You can see the imageshack links on my postings. I can describe a dozen victims clothing, their looks and where they were dropped into the water by Cram and Rossi who were right there with them.
Cliff, the south lake was tiny then, maybe an acre or 2. I ran into Gacy standing by a foul smelling gravesite on that path. I outlined this spot in a map many times to the police. There were other spots just like it on that path. After I realized that they were not going to investigate my map, then I started to investigate the possiblility of a cleanup. The rumor of the cleanup was that there were a lot of drowned victims. I don’t want to disclose the number I heard yet or my source. I was about 14 when I first started going there( Gacy chased me) and I last seen the associates with those giant backpacks walking towards the “preperation site” when I was about 19. I know what I heard and what I saw. I know the close calls I had. The cops without a shadow of a doubt cleaned this up, and I have literally told them that, and they keep trying talk me out of it because they have no reports.
I am having trouble zeroing in on the exact ages, but this is closer then my guesses above. I was about 14 when Gacy chased me around on my bike. I was about 15 or 16 when I heard the first cannonball splash booms, it was enough to make me go over there just to stare at the lake and wonder what the heck is going on. I was about 18 for the mega boom I was practically on top of, the one that made me zigzag through the forest to escape. I was about 18 when I was in Gacys car. I was about 19 when I saw the object fall from the cliff very close to that spot I described above. I saw it from way back almost by the road. It must have been big. I was about 19 when those guys started hassling me and tried to start my car with someone elses key. I was about 20 or 21 when I last saw them with their giant backpacks. I am 55 now.
I am not good at guessing years, it could be that the associates were there maybe only 3 years but Gacy was there first and was there many years. Exact number of years elude me.
Cliff, there were no boats on those tiny lakes. There were very few people ever in that quarry. I never seen anyone ever fish the quarry lakes in all the years I went there. The fake thug fisherman were pretending to fish the hidden east side creek which ran parallel to the quarry wall and parallel to the path. I was completely alone in that entire quarry (or so I thought) many times in the beginning. The traffic picked up only very very slightly throughout the years. Which is why I think they were somehow luring victims. The traffic picked up when the entire east wall of the quarry was dug out in 1979-80 and then completely flooded in 1980-81. I have no scarring, too many years went by. However I can’t go down paths like that alone anymore. I double lock everything at night. I am afraid of people who look a little bit like Gacy. I get worried when my grandkids go places because those associate thugs were never arrested. So maybe there is a little problem there. The cops had their chance in 1979 to get witnesses but it looks like they completely bypassed the judicial system by assuminng Gacy did all the murders. The associates were there more than Gacy was. Why would they fake fish with metal rods? Why were they there when I heard the splash booms? Why were they checking out strange keys in my ignition? Why did they always arrive in one car? What was with the air wacking on my head? They laughed their heads off then. Why were they hanging out with Gacy at all, for years? Why was the one coming after me with his metal rod, he tried to hide behind trees when doing so but I saw him anyway. Why were they always fishing at opposite ends of the path? Why were the large splash booms so close to where they were fishing? Why were they walking towards that hollow under the trees that looked like a preparation area with giant backpacks? Although I did see Gacy walk towards it too with that blond haired guy, but I did not see them walk all the way to it like I did the backpacking associates. The interesting thing about the blond haired guy was that he was leading the pack when the 4 of them arrived one day walking in single file. The brown haired guys split up and walked a direction I had never seen them walk before, and then he travelled the path along the creek with Gacy and then walked towards that hollow with him. It was the only time I ever saw the blond haired guy. Was he a victim or an associate I wonder? There must have been another preparation area because some splash booms came from the due east wall that was quite hidden from the main view. I gotta go, ask me more questions if you want.
Come to think of it, in regards to fishing that south end lake: one day David F. Cram was at that south end lake with a fishing pole. I can’t remember anyone else with a fishing pole on that lake besides Cram. He was casting out directly below the hidden hollow area where I now realize that he and Rossi tossed victims (area J on my map) and reeling the line back over and over again. I watched him from the time I entered the quarry until the time it took to get back to where he was “fishing” thinking that maybe I should try fishing that little lake. He stopped casting and started to walk away when he saw me approaching him. It was one of the few times I actually said something to him because I didn’t like those guys. I asked him if he was catching anything. He said no. He walked back to resume his endeavor when I left. About 20 minutes later I crossed paths with Cram on the “path of death” as he was returning to Michael J. Rossi.
Hi Cliff, In additional response to your question regarding a goodly number of people disappearing without media attention. Way back when Gacy was first caught, it was common knowledge that there were families of victims of Gacy that were shamed into silence by the thought of their loved one being murdered during a homosexual tryst with Gacy, when in fact they may have been murdered without Gacy even being there by those 2 associates. This “shamed attitude” was in print as well as being talked about verbally. Attitudes toward homosexuality were very much different in the 70’s. There is also another avenue of potential reasoning regarding lack of media attention. I had a neighbor who drowned in a quarry in Elgin about the same time as Gacy being caught. I recently asked the police to check into the true nature of this event to see if the story completely checked out, but nothing happened, which is understandable. If citizens were being told that their kid drowned in a quarry that is the end of the story. Shifting gears, there was one day when I went to the quarry and there were no cars parked at the street and yet those 2 fake fishermen were there. They surprised me when I walked over there. Someone had probably dropped them off.Somebody who may also have been involved. For legal reasons I must state that these are all my own opinions.
For legal purposes I must state that ALL posts listed by “none” with the attached email address are strictly my own opinion and based mostly on my own observations during the late 1970’s along with some recent investigations. I must also state that current police officials have absolutely no public records to verify any of these observations or claims.
As far as trying to determine whether the blond haired guy was a victim or an associate. I would like to state that when the 4 of them walked into the quarry that day in a single file. The blond haired guy was in front, the 2 dark haired guys were second and third, and Gacy was last. The overdressed blond haired guy turned left (east) first, directly in front of me and headed to the path and then Gacy followed him way wide of me, hiding his face the whole way, and the 2 dark haired guys turned right (west). When the 2 associates turned directly in front of me, they were both elbow clutching something in their matching coats on the farside of my vision that they did not want me to see. If those 2 guys were hiding metal rods and the blond haired guy knew they were, my guess is that he may have been involved. He was leading the pack which also raises a question of involvement. He was about 5’10″ thin, 150 pounds, well dressed, no glasses, tan colored sport coat with elbow pads, tan dress pants and dress shoes, he had golden blond hair parted on the side. He was way overdressed for a quarry. I am looking for witnesses who may also have seen him there or with Gacy himself somewhere else.
I know exactly what the blond haired guy looked like and what he was wearing, I also know what the older guy on the path looked like and what he was wearing. I could work with a police artist to determine if they were a victim or accomplice.
This is what I think I am going to switch to, just a simple little story to replace that mess above, any suggestions anyone?
Unknown to almost everyone, Deep Quarry in Dupage was a graveyard of both buried and approx 25 drowned victims. In 1979 the Cook County and Dupage County police were ordered to bypass the complete judicial system, and whoever gave these orders created a situation where some of the coldest blooded mass murderers in history were let off the hook for life. Instead of looking for witnesses (like me and others) the 2 counties secretly and incorrectly blamed Gacy for the entire mass murder site, most likely without even telling Gacy himself. The 1979 police secretly dug up the entire east wall of the Deep Quarry gravel pit while Summerdale was being cleaned up at a turtles pace. Sure Gacy killed some of the victims at this quarry, probably the buried ones, but from what I saw the associates were just as guilty or even more so. For 4 or 5 years I watched the associates from a distance working their morbid day job from time to time, After I determined there was a secret cleanup, I then realized the associates were cold blooded murderers, stealing cars, stealing money and who knows what else they did. They came after me once with a metal rod on that path. Gacy came after me several times. I was even in Gacys car once. I had seen the associates there much more than I ever saw Gacy. The associates had a system using an inescapable path of death, hidden from view, on the top edge of the quarry overlooking 2 small lakes, they had a preparation hideaway too that they shared with Gacy for weighing down victims that I stumbled upon. The 1979 police secretly dug it all up without any trace or public documentation of what they did. I am haunted by the hearing of what were loud cannonball splashes of what were most likely victims and the sight of what I eventually realized was probably a falling victim from that preparation hideaway, and Gacys car was not even parked there most of those days, but the associates were there, pretending to fish at opposite ends of the secluded path with their heavy metal rods of death and the cliffs were right there too for quick victim disposal into the lake. I am haunted knowing that these guys are probably still running around loose, forever free of prosecution due to a stealth cleanup so effective that the police today cannot figure it out. I am haunted that the 1979 police will come after me for spilling the beans. I must state for legal reasons that this is strictly all my own opinion and based on my own observations as an eyewitness to the quarry events during the late 1970’s along with some recent investigations. I must also state that current police officials have absolutely no public records to verify any of these observations or claims. Someday the world will know the truth. It is time to change the laws so this never happens again.
There is absolutely no truth to any of my sons postings from “none” in regards to John Wayne Gacy. They are all a hoax.
MY STORY IS NOT A HOAX. On Aug 1st and 2nd, 2012; I temporarily retracted my story as explained below. I went into full panic overload and became afraid of being railroaded by certain angry public officials because Illinois is not the state to mess with especially when it comes to exposing something such as this. I know that I am really pushing some buttons here. But on the flipside, knowing that Illinois is not the state to mess with also makes me realize that Cram and Rossi could be in for a rough ride down the road. Whatever it takes to put them away for life is good enough for me.
There is absolutely no truth to any of our sons rediculous postings from “none” in regards to John Wayne Gacy. They are all a hoax. You have been pranked by a young teenager. Please remove them, this is all very embarrassing for everyone.
Decisions like that would come from very powerful people. Frightenly powerful.
MY STORY IS NOT A HOAX.
None is scared to death of revenge.
I panicked because I thought that I would be arrested by now for spilling the beans (my opinion only) on powerful people. I am very afraid when I think of the big names I am punching in the nose right now. Why didn’t I go to the cops back then? In the seventies the police were not friendly like today. They were to be avoided and some of them railroaded me in ways that showed pure stupidity. I was smacked in the face with a billyclub and booked for carrying a weapon, my weapon was my rock pick in my van which they kept. (thanks officer King). I was put in a straightjacket for a long time in the lobby of the police station for “forgery” my supposed forgery was an improperly filled out “license applied for form” by a currency exchange, a clerical error. They were out of jail cells so they put me in a straight jacket. I spent 3 days in jail on a holiday weekend for that. Everyone I knew was gone and nobody to bail me out. Also a 100 percent pure B.S. fleeing and eluding charge for riding my dirt bike 2 doors down, I stopped at the door knocked and went into my friends house. When I came out I was arrested and they towed my bike and my car to “teach me a lesson” and damaged both. I was railroaded in court for that B.S. felony (thanks officer Tapper) and that started a downhill slide. Some of the 70’s cops were blooming idiots in my opinion. And there were more incidents, but enough, that is why I never went to the cops for anything after that. There were good cops too though, Bartlett had good cops. I knew those associates were bad, and that Gacy was bad, but there were a lot of bad people around back then. I just never fathomed how bad those associates and Gacy really were.
I think the bigger reason I never went to the cops back then was that there was really nothing to report. Back then it looked like 2 creepy guys that were fishing the creek all the time that occasionally hung around with another creepy guy in an oldsmobile. They had metal walking sticks and appeared to have lots of different friends that would come and they would all go to the lake together. Sometimes they would sit down or lay down and break out a cooler. And they threw large objects in the water. What was there to report back then? Even at 20 I was still basically a naive kid.
There was one other reason I kept a lot of it to myself, I ran into supposed “experts” who called me a liar which is frustrating and painful beyond anything you could ever imagine. Michael Rossi and David Cram belong in the serial killers hall of fame for being 2 of the greatest con men serial killers of all time. And that is not just an opinion but a fact, a fact that goes unproven unless I find more witnesses. Maybe they killed them all because they were very very good at it, maybe they still are.
The fact that I did not go to the police back then should not be a factor at all in determining whether or not to fix this problem of Rossi and Cram still running around. Maybe I am looking at this all wrong when it comes to not going to the police back then. If the police had conducted a proper investigation in 1979 and disclosed the mass murder site to the public and looked for witnesses to suspicious activity I am certain that I would have gone to police and others would have as well. I found out during my investigation that some of the people who worked on the 1979 cleanup were told that it was all young boys who were murdered. Even those cleanup workers were not being told the truth because I saw a woman being led to the hidden hollow, and many slightly older guys who were definitely not young boys being accosted by Cram and Rossi. Like I said before, this is one of the most screwed up situations ever. It may be so screwed up that we, the people of 2012, will never know the truth of what really happened. One truth is certain though, Cram and Rossi are the 2 luckiest mass murderers of all time, they could have been executed 20 years ago, alongside their boss and friend John Wayne Gacy.
I just realized last night that I have in my possession one of the metal rods those guys used, that I found stuck in the ground way back then, standing straight up, near the L-shaped area that I drew in my map where they were killing victims and throwing them in the lake.
I picked up this rod and carried it home, and I still have it. The rod is 0.75 DIA X 27.62” long Aluminum and beat to hell. They beat the hell out of this rod. I remember picking it up that way. I saw them with these same type rods a bunch of times, swinging them around, they were getting casual in the end about carrying them, swinging them around while they walked many times from the fishing spot to the hidden L-shaped area that was the chamber of death where they killed and tossed people into the water, this is where most splash booms came from. These rods were also their fake fishing poles. They look just like the poles that I saw in Gacys trunk. Gacy killed people too of course but he also drove the associates to the quarry from time to time. They got their ride home by stealing cars from the victims. I offered the rod I have to the police, lets see what happens. I drew the police another map of the area that was dug away during the Summerdale excavation and showed them the areas where people were murdered and tossed, lets see where that goes too. Every map I ever drew gets looked at and quickly dismissed (no records to verify) so far. I also remembered last week, that I once saw both associates collectively throw an object with what I thought were funky table legs into the water and they both watched it until it landed and splashed. They did not see me thank God. I was 30 feet away and their backs were turned. I went around the lake curious and expecting to see floating wood but saw nothing. This was a victim they tossed that I witnessed, one holding the arms and one holding the legs. They both stared at it until it went splash. I heard many splash booms, the booms grew louder over the years. I saw a falling victim from the hidden hollow, and I think I saw a victim in the corner of my eye fall from that L-shaped area once. I watched the associates run up and down that path from fake fishing spot to the L-chamber on the lake. They carried the rods and they carried big rocks 2, 3 or 4 to a fist. It was business as usual to these idiots. I wonder how many they have killed by now. I saw them lead people into the L-shaped chamber while the one stood guard at the entrance and the other one spoke to the victim softly yet sternly. The victim was around the corner where he could not be seen. I saw all this and there is nothing I can do about it because the police have no records. I read a lot of stories about officers talking to all of Gacys friends, these same officers need to come out of retirement, or new ones, and arrest these thugs and blame them for at least the one murder I saw let alone mass murder. Des Plaines cops must know these guys as Gacys friends. In my opinion the cops won’t do anything now either. Can you imagine, mass murder not properly investigated 30 years ago and not now either. One officer will look it up and say “there are no records so I can’t do anything”.
I keep remembering more and more because I can remember a great deal of a lot of things I have seen and done, but it takes a very long time to access the memories when there are so many of them. The mass murderers are still out there. I need more witnesses like myself, others must have slipped by those guys too. I need to get my map out to the public to jog memories for witnesses. The map shows the areas dug up while Summerdale was being excavated. This area contained Gacy and the associates path of death. I cannot believe I was never murdered. I walked that path several times and I was even in Gacys car for goodness sakes. For legal reasons I must state in regards to the mass murder claim these are all my own opinions and that the police today have no records to verify any of this.
There is one more entry here: I spent most of my time in the main body of the quarry looking for rocks, shooting my pellet guns, slingshot, etc. and very rarely went onto the path where the fake fisherman were. From the main body of the quarry, and looking across the south end lake,even from the extensive span of my vantage point, I would see, perhaps 3 or 4 times on separate occasions 3 people standing in that same pattern in that sunken L-shaped area overlooking the south end lake, one near the “door” looking toward the lake, and 2 facing each other on the edge of cliff which had a good size platform to stand on. All three always about 20 feet apart.The same pattern as described above that I would also see from the pathside eventually. I once saw the third guy laying down with a cooler near him, The other 2 dress alike thugs walking back and forth around him. At the time it looked like a picnic scene to me but now I realize it must have been another victim, it always ended in a victim, weighted down and tossed into the lake with a splash boom cannonball noise I heard many times. With the exception of Gacy and that overdressed blond haired guy once, the 2 mass murdering dress alike thugs had no other company there. I knew what Gacy looked like from my previous bad run ins with him, and the people the 2 thugs talked to on that ledge did not have Gacys body shape.
Clarification to above. “FOR THE FIRST FEW YEARS” I spent most of my time in the main body of the quarry looking for rocks, shooting my pellet guns, slingshot, etc. and very rarely went onto the path where the fake fisherman were. I increased my frequency of going on the path toward the later years. I hope I am done posting forever now.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/deepquarry1979beforeeas.jpg/
LINK TO aerial quarry image 1978, download quickly because this is a free anonymous image site with cutoff date. If you compare this image to aerial images after 1979 you will see where the area was dug up. This digging occurred while gacys home was being slowly excavated while the media was slowly watching. The area dug up which was the entire east wall from front to back even around the bend was where gacys friends (his 2 dark haired dress alike friends would hang out from approx 1974-1978. Once in a great while gacy would go there too. It was the 2 thugs that were tossing people in the lake and accosting them on the L-shaped ledge. I sure hope the police killed those 2 animals 33 years ago, that would sure explain everything. All I can do is guess right now because I have no idea what the police really did in regards to those 2 thugs. For legal purposes I must state that these are my own opinions and that the current police have no reports to verify anything I state.
Clarification to the above: The 2 thugs had no other company fishing with them or walking around with them that is. New arrivals on the path would wind up on the L-ledge with Cram and Rossi in that same pattern. I can’t help but wonder how those people were being lured there, this was an extremely remote area. There must have been a system in place.
I am shipping Rossi and Crams metal thug club tomorrow to the authorities and decided to look at it under a magnifying glass first, and after doing so I can’t wash my hands enough. I am pretty sure this thing was used heavily as a ramrod to push stones. Thank God I realized what it was. I can’t get rid of it fast enough. The day I found it both Michael Rossi and David Cram were there. I walked behind Rossi guarding the entrance in his usual position when they were accosting a victim. It was very very tense.
The day I took the club from that spot shown on my map, both Cram and Rossi were inside the L-ledge accosting yet another victim. I had no clue it was theirs at that time. Rossi was standing guard in his usual spot at the entrance to the L-ledge. He silently stared a hole through me as usual when I passed him standing there, but this time he was also staring at the club I was carrying. I had unknowingly taken one of their clubs. When I got up to my car, I tossed it in the trunk and noticed that one of them had almost caught up to me. I did not like those guys so I took off before he got there.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/thugclubandramrod1.jpg/
and
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/thugclubandramrod2.jpg/
Here are 2 pictures of the club club/ramrod I had unknowingly taken from them, I think it was Crams, he was the one without the thug club when I passed them accosting another unfortunate victim on the L-ledge. This thug club mass murder weapon is now in the hands of the authorities.
The guy chasing me to get the club back stopped running when he saw me pull away in my car. I didn’t connect it at the time but now I know.
After 2 years of absolutely nothing happening, today I give up. My wife thinks I’ve lost it and thinks divorce is right around the corner, the kids ask no questions and look at me like I’m nuts. I can’t sleep well. I fear retaliation on a daily basis from old cops and politicians. The grandkids don’t know and maybe never will. Today’s young police officers talk to me like they are pacifying a lunatic. Those guys win, Joe wins, Elrod wins, Doria wins, Thompson wins, maybe a few FBI guys, some of which came up with that absolute jackass plan of the century. The biggest winners of all are the 2 dress alike mass murdering (murdering at the quarry from about 1974-1978) thugs who remained or will remain free of the many many mass murders at Deep Quarry for life, both in their early 50′s now. And the biggest losers, that’s us, the taxpayers, the ones the government were supposed to protect, and failed to, in the biggest failure of policing ever in the history of police work.
The postings from “none” above starting July 4th (how symbolic) and ending today are my only entered internet documents as an eyewitness, last witnessed at age 21, to this event ever and are quite incomplete. For legal reasons I must state that all my posted opinions by me are all my own opinions and that the current police have absolutely no public records to verify any of my claims. However my eyewitness acounts are 100 percent accurate as witnessed by me.
Those were some mean words I said. I wish I could take them back now. That was wrong of me. I’m sorry.
I now remember exactly what those 2 thugs looked like. I could now identify them easily from old photos. I also remember more victims now as viewed from across the lake a year or 2 before I ever went down that path of death, both standing and laying down, always motionless when laying there. How brazen those 2 animals were. The police do not seem to care about any information that I bring to them about this, no police interest at all, not even in one of the thugs death clubs. I have even gotten mad and said some pretty bad things to the police about the 1979 police, yet they still ignore me. There is one explanation that could explain all this; I wonder if those 2 animals never made it out of that quarry alive?
Does anyone know where I can get pictures of John Wayne Gacys friends? I know exactly what those guys looked like. One long faced droopy eyed guy with kind of a crooked face and the other one was more normal looking with somewhat dark handsome features. Both in their early 50′s now, if they are still alive that is.
Actually don’t send me information on where to find pictures. I want to find them on my own. I do not want to be predisposed to what the thugs looked like. That way my findings will be without outside influences.
I need to give the police a chance to think about some of the things I have sent them, often times I am too impatient and argumentative for my own good.
Shifting gears; Amongst the victims I viewed from across the lake that were accosted on that L-shaped ledge were a man and a woman. The 2 thugs were in their usual positions on the L-shaped ledge as shown on my map (F and G,see link). One thug guarded the entrance, and the other thug talking to the victims. The man and woman were clutching each other in the furthest portion of that L-shaped area. They then all left together. Minutes later they were all on the cliff walking toward the hidden hollow under the trees (area J on my map, see link), the woman struggling to walk in her tight black skirt and heels. And once again there was no Gacy or his car to be seen anywhere. The thugs were operating alone as usual. I left the quarry and looked back to see the thugs and the couple walking up there. Gacy did not kill the majority of those people in that quarry. The mix of people accosted on that ledge did not even fit his M.O. He was the killer of boys, it was too bad he didn’t kill those 2.
Actually I cannot state that Gacy did not kill the majority, I really don’t know that, after all I was in school a lot, I worked a lot, and I was rarely there at night. But when I was there Rossi and Cram were there by far more than Gacy was.
At this time I have no idea how many victims there were. I can only guess by looking at the spike in drowning stats, the victims were most likely spread out amongst many counties and maybe even time released to buffer the hidden murder stats. Someone started looking at breaking that down for me. For some reason that person has not gotten back to me yet. I originally estimated 25 drowned victims but will not know the more accurate estimation until this person gets back to me.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/rossicramscenario5.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/rossicramscenario6.png/
These images are crude artwork of when I saw David Cram and Michael Rossi accosting the young couple on the L-ledge of the south end lake as described above. They then all moved to the hidden hollow as described above in one of the Aug 10 posts.
During the late 70’s, just like old Mallard Lake, the small north end Deep Quarry lake had many broken balloon fragments washed up on its shores (perhaps from Gacy and his air gun activities that he talked about and I mentioned in previous posts) but Cram and Rossi’s Deep Quarry south end lake had a different type of refuse on its shoreline; for it had more than its fair share of small and tiny pieces of paper some balled up and some flat, there were small wrappers, small litter, and tiny shards of clothing type materials washed up on its shores. If anyone ever sees a shoreline on a small lake with that type of condition it may warrant a closer look.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/seeingrossicramscenario.png/
I had to reload and rename this one because it was removed by imageshack.
I located a man who even after 1/3 century still bears an incredible resemblance to one of the thugs who were killing people and tossing them in the lake. The dark hair, the correct age, the unique features of his face, the droopy eyes, the downward turned mouth, the unique profile of his face, even his body shape and posture are right in line with one of the men I tried my best to avoid in that quarry. Our occasional quick crossings were the unavoidable ones. If this is him, he was the thug at the far end of the path who walked up to accost the victims on the path, and also the thug who guarded the path entrance to the L-shaped inescapable ledge while the other thug did the talking. If this is him, he was recently busted for being a pedophile and lost his job, and according to one site, he also left a trail of pedophile type behavior at another location, spanking boys, employing boys, sex texting boys, strong community activism and support. If him, this man shares the same name as a man prominently featured in many Gacy articles, a survivor viewed by many as almost a hero of sorts, a young man who, along with his young friend, somehow miraculously survived Gacy to the point of even working in his crawlspace. If he is not the guy I saw in that quarry then it is his twin brother. I am waiting results to see if I am right. I realized 33 years ago that something was not right with those 2 guys always throwing large objects into the lake, the objects falling from the cliffs, the metal club walking sticks, trying a strange key in my car ignition, doing an air wacking maneuver on my head, carrying rocks, the strange meeting formations on the ledge, etc,etc. With no news ever happening I did not concern myself much. It was only after an easily investigative discovery about 6 weeks ago, did I start to realize the full scope of what went on around me in that quarry. I did a little recent research and found that formal police investigations take considerably more time then I thought, even sometimes, although rarely, up to 2 years. Perhaps that is why the police are not getting back in touch with me. I am simply not giving them enough time. The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn. There are still other possibilities that would explain everything:
1) The animals never made it out of that quarry alive, and the 1979 police simply don’t want to talk about it.
2) The present day police already knew a lot of things, and were recently already working on it before I ever came along, it is quite possible I was slowing them down.
If you think back to when Gacy was caught, the shock of what unfolded was unimaginable and most likely triggered governmental reactions at the very breaking point of reasonable human planning in regards to mental endurance; there is just no school for that sort of thing. Or more simply, shocking events trigger shocking plans. When I dwell on that, I am left with no alternative but to formally apologize for my name calling in regards to the 1979 plan. The police recently asked for the publics help on finding more victims. I was only trying to help as an eyewitness and discovered more than I bargained for, I overreacted and I am sorry. I am sure the police will do the right thing. It’s only been six weeks.
To the above I forgot to state: for legal reasons I must state that all my posted opinions by me are all my own opinions and that the current police have no public records to verify any of my claims. However my eyewitness acounts are 100 percent accurate as witnessed by me.
I am taking this off the table “The animals never made it out of that quarry alive, and the 1979 police simply don’t want to talk about it.” There is no way that happened. That is not an option to me anymore. I am 99.9% certain that the pedophile I found on the internet is the cold blooded mass murderer from the quarry. He worked in Michigan for many years after Gacy was caught, in the same area that Gacy worked during the late 70′s. That might be how Gacy found him. Now he is in NY. The only way he is not the mass murderer is if he has a twin brother.
I found a picture and name of the other mass murdering thug, it was my first guess and it was no surprise. Let’s see what happens now. There is nothing left for me to do now except wait.
I witnessed David Cram and Michael Rossi (Gacys friends) throw a human being who was wearing dark jeans with high top tennis shoes into the lake precisely at the area just north of spot K on my map. I witnessed this from the path very close to spot F on my map. Spot F was typically where Michael Rossi stood guard with a metal club when accosting their victims. However Rossi and Cram were busy disposing of a human being at that time. Their backs were turned to me as they heaved the body. The bodies shielding the full view of what they threw. I saw the object only after parallax allowed me to do so. They both watched it go to the full decent until it landed with the familiar sound of a splashboom, a boom I would hear many times whenever they were around. They did not see me because they were too busy watching the victims decent. I quickly went around the bushes and strained to see what they threw into the water but could not see anything. I stayed hidden in the bushes until they left. Both Rossi and Cram completely left the quarry then. They never did see me. I dismissed this odd event as probably being a table with funky table legs. I then went down to the lake expecting floating wood but saw nothing floating. With no reports of anything ever happening in that quarry the event was dismissed as an illusion. Until 33 years later when I discovered the large scale secret cleanup. If the police were to unhide their reports (if possible) they will find a human being with jeans and high tops at precisely the point I mentioned. They will also find many more human beings all around the cliffs edge of the lake. I estimate at least dozen people were killed around me due to falling objects, splash booms, victims laying down or sitting up in a crumpled heap while propped against David Crams legs with Michael Rossi fetching the cooler. I would like to formally make charges against those 2 for the murder I saw. But it would probably be a lesson in futility additionally I am scared to death of those 2 mass murderers.
The futility lies in the fact I do not know of any other witnesses yet, most events were circumstantial in the minds of a defense attorney, I am 99.9% positive on the ID and not 100% because people do change after 33 years. Hypothetically speaking if it ever went to the next step, my life would never be the same if they were acquitted. I would become afraid of everything. These guys were the disciples of Gacy.
This is my last post, goodbye.
-none
The post above wasn’t the last post but I am trying to get away from posting, I have given the police enough information, certainly they can find out whether or not the Michael Rossi pedophile I found in NY is the same guy that worked with Gacy, I am 99.9% certain that it is. The 2012 police can certainly pick up the other 0.1%. I can’t find anything on David Crams internet whereabouts except 1 old 1979 newspaper clipping pdf with his photo. Looking back Cram was the one that I usually saw near the laying down person first on that L-ledge with Rossi initially standing in his customary position near the entrance to the L-ledge. I could not find any pictures at all of the 1979 Rossi, maybe Rossi wanted it that way. I keep thinking of more laws that probably need to be changed but I am not a lawyer so who am I to say. This is a mess and those guys are still out there. I wish the webmaster would lock me out from posting, I want to be done with this. I want those mass murdering thugs to be put away. If you have information to contribute please contact the Cook County Sheriffs office or Becker-Stephenson or both like I do. Please remember that the police will only take information and will generally not get back to you, that is how it worked for me, understandably so.
The police can certainly find out if this is the same Michael Rossi, the question is do they have the time and resources, with 400-600 murders a year in the Chicagoland area they have their hands full let alone what happened 33 years ago. Could it be possible that this is actually low on the totem pole? I have absolutely no idea what is going on with this. If Cram or Rossi lived in the same town as me I would be crawling out of my skin right now. I found the lowlife Rossi in NY but where is the lowlife David Cram? There are so many guys with that same name, I have got to find that sub-human fungus.
Someone pointed out a video that David Cram is in, but he is hiding in the shadows, so apparently the reporters found him. I remember him well from that quarry. Where is he now? What is his middle initial? I started looking at some literature at what those 2 were telling the cops back then, I had to stop, it was nauseating, the show they must have put on, when all the while they were 2 of the biggest mass murderers in history at that quarry. Teenage con men hiding behind their supposed youthful innocence.
let me try this again, here is the Cram video
OK CHRIS, go ahead and lock me out. What a confusing mess I have made due to so many posts, I am only making it worse so therefore I am done. You have my email because I sure can’t find yours. Thanks for the use of your website.
Sometimes people will ask me a specific question about an item relevant to Gacy and his associates. I would like everyone to understand that it takes time to properly answer a question about something that happened over 30 years ago. Don’t expect an instant answer. Clarifying old memories often takes a long time. The supposed experts are the worst offenders of this expectation of an instant answer
The original purpose of my postings was to anonymously look for more witnesses as well as document my progress as I went along and concluded what happened at Deep Quarry in Dupage County during the late 1970’s. There are still many unanswered questions. Beware of postings by people who claim to be me but so far I haven’t seen any. To see the time progression, you would have to sort by date all the postings of none.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/rossicramscenario1.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/rossicramscenario2.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/rossicramscenario3.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/rossicramscenario4.png/
These images are on a free anonymous download site, download quickly before they are gone. These images are crude artwork of what I saw Cram and Rossi doing back in the late 70′s on the L-ledge of the south end lake. I saw each of these scenarios multiple times. At that time I didn’t think much of it. It looked like people laying around by a lake, maybe a little drunk, maybe having a picnic, maybe partying, etc. I certainly didn’t think it was an assembly line of death at that time. After my recent discovery of the large scale secret cleanup in 1979 I now know the truth of what those 2 were up to. There are more images coming later. I still haven’t located David Cram. I still don’t have word on whether or not the NY pedophile I found on the internet with 99% certainty is the same guy that worked with Gacy in his crawlspace.
I almost forgot to mention that I often thought those guys were drug dealers. There were a lot of people selling drugs back then, drug dealers were openly selling drugs at many forest preserves in the area, the police didn’t clean up the forest preserves until around 1979. What I saw on the ledge with the meetings often times looked like a drug deal with Cram facing the victim. Rossi guarding the path. It was not too unlike drug deals I had seen going down in other places. There were people with their hands out, there were exchanges, there were people who appeared to be falling down drunk or falling down stoned. The cops really screwed up by not investigating those murders and hiding them from the public. What kind of loopholes of corruption were there back then! By continuing this farce of denial, the current police are perpetuating the corruption.
http://imageshack.us/photo/myimages/715/seeingrossicramscenario.png/
I needed to download a new one of the one below. This was on a free download site. I fear all the artwork will be gone someday unless I do something. The major is media is doing except drinking the governments caca cola koolaid .
Typing that post without my glasses was a disaster.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/seeingrossicramscenario.png/
One of the images listed above was deleted by imageshack. This was a victim in a red shirt.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/225/davidfcramandmichaeljro.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/davidfcrampointingatmea.png/
These 2 links are for my crude artwork showing how David F Cram and Michael J Rossi tried to accost me one day when I walked the path of death.
Fortunately I turned around, not because I was afraid but simply because I did not like those guys. I avoided them and Gacy as much as possible. I am still looking for other witnessess who also turned around.
This is a free download site so download quickly.
This crude artwork is on a free download site so download quickly.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/rossicramaccostingvicti.png/
This crude artwork shows mass murderers David F. Cram talking to a victim and Michael J. Rossi guarding the entrance to the L-ledge. I had seen this same setup several times when walking down the path. Most of time when I saw Rossi and Cram accosting people from the pathside, I had lucked out by entering the path from the south side by walking around the quarry. The accosting direction for the path of death was to enter the path from the north side which is something I rarely did because I always tried to avoid those guys.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/526/rossicramdroppingvictim.png/
This crude artwork shows the incident where I couldn’t believe my own eyes and I dismissed this split second event as an illusion of funky table legs being tossed into the lake because there were never any reports of anything happening at the quarry along with the fact that those guys (Cram and Rossi) were always there for 3 to 4 years. If the 1979 police had conducted a proper investigation and looked for witnesses to suspicious activity I certainly would have brought this one (blue jeans, high tops and precise location) and other activities to their attention 33 years ago. If the police were to unhide their 1979 records I can point out a lot of incidents with sufficient detail to prove I was there as a witness and hopefully put Rossi and Cram away for life. There must be other witnesses as well. There is more on this event typed up in an earlier post on Aug 13th.
Keep in mind that at the speed of gravity this event of the victim I saw with high top shoes and jeans tossed into the lake by David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi happened in 1/10th to 1/16th of a second. How many people would believe their own eyes when viewing an event with that short of a duration? Considering the fact that David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi were there for years before and after I viewed this event, why should I have thought that I saw a human victim? So I dismissed it as an illusion until my 2012 investigation revealed a secret cleanup at Deep Quarry in Dupage. I am positive beyond a shadow of a doubt about this cleanup. The police need to unhide their secret records and they will see that I am right about the description of that victim as well as the descriptions and locations of the other victims I told them about. Only a witness can do this, therefore I must have been there many times.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/805/seeingrossicramdropping.png/
For some reason I had to download a new image of this one.
I had walked completely around the west side of the quarry one day, this was the side of the quarry that was opposite of the path of death. I circled back along the tree line on the cliff, and when I got about 25 feet west of the hidden hollow under the trees I saw Cram and Rossi bringing a man in his mid to late 20’s with long shaggy curly brown hair who was wearing an open safari type field jacket with multiple long leather accessories hanging around his neck and dressed like a hippie. He was walking fast and staring straight ahead toward that hollow with Cram and Rossi just behind him. I stood there in the trees and luckily none of them looked at me even though I was only about 25 feet away when they entered the hollow. I then started walking away and when I was about 50 yards away from the hidden hollow I heard a thumping or booming noise that made me look back. A few seconds later the dressed alike Cram and Rossi were the only 2 to emerge from that hollow and they quickly walked back toward the path. They walked side by side, just like they always did after leaving from a kill, and walked right out of the quarry just like they always did after a kill. Probably to take the victims car I would imagine. The guy they brought into the hollow was a hippie type so I thought that maybe there were people partying in that hollow so I walked over and looked inside the hollow and there was nobody there. The guy that they had brought in there had vanished. I looked around and I could not see him anywhere. If the police were to unhide their 1979 records they will find that there was a guy matching that description that was dropped from that spot by Cram and Rossi.
http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img38/1271/seeingrossicramtakingvi.png
This is the link for the artwork which shows the man described above on Sept 9 who disappeared from inside the hidden hollow when brought there by Cram and Rossi. He was dressed just like in my artwork. I remember exactly what that guy looked like too.
http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img811/1271/seeingrossicramtakingvi.png
This is artwork showing when I saw Cram and Rossi accosting and bringing a victim onto the L-ledge. I saw this exact scene a couple times. The victim in my artwork scenario was a thin older guy with side parted greyish hair, perhaps mid 40′s or so. He was nicely dressed in an earthtone windbreaker and wore casual slacks. I remember exactly what he looked like too.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/seeingrossicramtakingvi.png/
Here is the artwork for the guy described above who vanished from the hidden hollow. This is how he looked.
I think I need to repost this one, it was hanging in moderation limbo for 5 days.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/seeingrossicramtakingvi.png/
This is the link for the artwork which shows the man described above on Sept 9 who disappeared from inside the hidden hollow when brought there by Cram and Rossi. He was dressed just like in my artwork. I remember exactly what that guy looked like too.
http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?page=done&l=img811/1271/seeingrossicramtakingvi.png
This is artwork showing when I saw Cram and Rossi accosting and bringing a victim onto the L-ledge. I saw this exact scene a couple times. The victim in my artwork scenario was a thin older guy with side parted greyish hair, perhaps mid 40′s or so. He was nicely dressed in an earthtone windbreaker and wore casual slacks. I remember exactly what he looked like too.
Someone I recently spoke to referred to my account of this event as a conspiracy theory. I was taken aback by the words “conspiracy theory” for 2 reasons. First of all this is not a theory, my account is an eyewitness account of what actually happened. David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi did kidnap many many people, murder them and throw them into the lake at Deep Quarry during the late 70’s. There are no doubts about it. Other than occasionally driving them there, they did this without John Wayne Gacys help or presence. Secondly conspiracies are pre-planned events of a negative nature. What happened in 1979-1980 was not a conspiracy but an unfortunate series of events that went seriously awry during an era of lax criminal enforcement loopholes.
NOT AN ACCOMPLICE THEORY: One of the pitfalls of having so many posts in lieu of a finished product is the confusion factor that I have instilled upon this disclosure of events. For some reason some people are also calling this an “accomplice theory”. As I stated directly above in a Sept 10, 2012 post, this is not a theory, but an actual eyewitness account that became apparent once I delved into the suspicious behavior of Gacys friends at the quarry. It is not MY FAULT OR THE PUBLICS FAULT that the police skipped this step of the murder investigation. Let’s call it like it is, from my viewpoint, it appears as if the 1979 police skipped ALL the steps through legal loopholes I would hope. As for Cram and Rossi being accomplices, that was NOT the case. Cram and Rossi mass murdered on their own for several years completely without Gacy s’ help. In every scenario that I recently artworked and uploaded onto imageshack where I witnessed these events, Gacy was not there and Cram and Rossi were murdering on their own. They were not accomplices in any of the events I witnessed. I need the police to really dwell on this and not disregard this fact.
Continued from above;Thus far this is not a conspiracy however the 2012 police can certainly make it one if top brass decides to pretend that this never happened, thereby dragging themselves back down to the corruption days of the 70’s. I do not believe that this will happen, however if that is the way top brass wants it, then they can kiss their legacies goodbye, because someone, somewhere, someday, will pick this event apart and dissect it into whatever ugly spectacle they feel the event deserves. Political enemies are usually very good at things like that, even if it is simply to fan the flames of political party hatred. As for what happened 33 years ago, I personally understand and have reached full police compassion for the unfortunate events that transpired. I have no ill feelings towards the police or politicians about what happened however I will not understand if the blue code of silence is to be senselessly used on this matter. The time to set the record straight is now. Common sense dictates that the time to put mass murderers David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi away is now.
I have asked the police multiple times to unhide their secret records of the mass murders at Deep Quarry. But they never respond. So therefore I now publicly ask former Sheriff of Dupage County Richard Doria, Former Sheriff of Cook County Richard Elrod, and former Governor of Illinois James Thompson to please consider how many lives were ruined by the mass murders by Michael J. Rossi and David F. Cram. Nobody gives a hoot about 33 year old events made through loopholes except the police who, thus far, seem duty bound to hide this any way they can. I know it happened. You all know it happened. There are probably others that saw the same things I did. You 3 guys had enormous power at that time. You must be able to pull some strings now with your old buddies to unhide what happened in order to get Michael J. Rossi put away. Sheriff John Zaruba, you are a great actor but please consider a little more humanity in your life regarding the lives that were ruined and the potential for Mr. Rossi’s future victims. Sheriff Tom Dart, you have enormous resources and clout, it would be an insult to justice, and a victory for hardened criminals if you do not investigate him. Please, all of you, go get Rossi and put him away, for any reason that you can, his record is a mile long.
I cannot stress this enough: The Michael J. Rossi of New York that I identified on the internet is at 99% CERTAINTY however I cannot state 100% until he is proven to be Gacys friend and employee. I remember him very very well from at least a dozen encounters in that quarry. The NY guy has the same posture, apparent height, face, eyes, complexion, hair color, sexual orientation and is the correct age as the guy I did my best to avoid in that quarry but 33 years have gone by since I last saw him hiking up to the hidden hollow with Cram. It was said that one guy from the Gacy trial was last known to be heading east. This NY Rossi has a Michigan connection in the same area that Gacy often worked in during the 70’s. I found this NY Rossi by searching names and photos on the internet from an internet lineup of guys named Michael Rossi. There are many internet stories by angry NY and Michigan people of this Rossi pedophile whose history of exploits parallels some of Gacys traits. There are enough overwhelming reasons to seriously check this guy out as the murderer I saw in that quarry and the abductor of many people who wound up dead at the bottom of that quarry lake weighed down with stones that he and Cram would carry onto the ledge or the hidden hollow.
In regards to the record of charges I mention above regarding the Michael J. Rossi of NY whose identity I am 99% certain about; I am referring to the long history and record of charges from people who are disgusted with his pedophile ways. I am unsure of his actual criminal record. This man is an escape artist. There comes a point when the sheer quantity of suspicion begins to grow and overwhelm the official end results. Our government is really showing its flaws both past and present with this guy. But first it needs to be determined if this is actually the guy who worked with Gacy or someone who physical looks and lifepath are almost identical. So far the government is protecting him by doing absolutely nothing or so I was told. He may very well be the most highly protected mass murderer ever in history, or in the least the most highly protected mass murderer suspect ever in history, which defies all logic, if it is him. Somebody told me recently that Rossi is somewhere else.I find this unlikely but it does bring up a very good point. Why should I as a citizen resort to finding mass murdering friends of Gacy’s on my own? This does not bode well when a citizen has to find his own suspects and perpetrators. It feels like a precursor to an ominous do nothing ending.
I am 100% positive that mass murdering thug#2 looks EXACTLY like the accused NY / MI pedophile. My 99% claim comes about if there is another man with the same exact face, profile, posture, age, apparent height, sexual orientation, hair color and complexion as this guy. This exact human duplicates name would also most likely have to be Michael J. Rossi as he was a daily companion to David F. Cram and occasionally John Wayne Gacy at what is now known as Deep Quarry.
2 Corrections:
1) Mr. Rossi probably did NOT work in Michigan for several years as I previously stated, I was wrong. I confused similar high school names and their towns. His internet trail of pedophilia goes back to the 80’s and seems be confined to New York and is quite damaging in character. From my observations in that Quarry during the late 70’s, Michael J. Rossi was homosexual. I had reported the perceived homosexuality of both thugs to the police before I ever found Mr. Rossi on the internet.
2) Contrary to what I previously thought for many months, I also recently remembered that I DID tell a policeman about the incidents that occurred back then. It was 1980 or 1981 when I talked to the officer. This man was a high ranking deputy (not Elrod himself though) who was driving one of Richard Elrod’s personal cars. He was in a dark blue 1976 or 1977 Eldorado with license plates that read ELROD or something close to that. He was at an apartment building near Army Trail Road and Swift Road so I seized the opportunity. He listened to my Gacy story and then quickly dismissed it. I could figure out exactly who he was if need be.
TO THE DISBELIEVERS;
Read between the lines on that Oct 20th post and you will see the reason why I panicked when I first released this story to the internet, why I am still nervous now and one of the main reasons why I posted so often. My family thought that I would disappear, be shot by a lunatic or be hauled off to jail on trumped up charges. It presents a dangerous and delicate situation when a government group orders other government groups to not lift a single finger to investigate one of the most prolific mass murderers of all time simply to keep hiding the embarrassment of their own actions. Everyone makes mistakes but not everyone wants to readily admit to their mistakes.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/rossicramgacythugmap.png/
New updated thug map showing names and murdering activities of David F. Cram, Michael J. Rossi and John Wayne Gacy at Deep Quarry in Dupage County in the late 70′s.
If you call the police about this story beware of the canned statement “THERE ARE NO REPORTS” by the police, this is a canned statement with double meaning potential. Look out for any deceptive canned statements that may have multiple meanings. I hate to say this but in 2-1/2 years I am still waiting for the first honest words from these guys regarding any of my encounters and they were all doozies. The green light was given back in 1979 to dupe the public and this has set an unfortunate precedence that is still continuing today.
The following sentences were taken from the article linked below.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/10683881-418/women-tell-of-links-between-gacy-friend-and-victim.html
1> The roommate later told prosecutors he had lived with Gacy for months, worked for Gacy and even dug a trench in his crawlspace.
2> “Then [the roommate] said he goes to one area where there’s a lot of dead bodies and the police don’t even know about it,” the girlfriend said.
3> The women, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said they reported the roommate’s odd statements to Chicago police after Mowery’s body was identified, but authorities never followed up. <end
Deep Quarry in Dupage is certainly where Cram and Rossi were hanging out for years; it is certainly a place where there were dead bodies all over as mentioned above by the woman who had obviously met Cram and/or Rossi.. The 1970’s Deep Quarry mass murders in Dupage County did happen and 2 of the worst mass murderers in history David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi were in the middle of it and are still free. Please read the entire http://www.suntimes.com article linked above, and please look at all the artwork links I listed in previous postings because my entries are not in order.
I can tell by the inactivity of my imageshack links that very few people are reading any of this. This isn’t working as fast as I was hoping it would. All I can figure is that the unbelievability factor is off the charts and into uncharted territory unobtainable in any other state except Illinois. I may need a new plan.
none – you should write to me and tell me more. tracy@norwesterproductions.com I’m reading you loud and clear.
Hi Tracy, I want to describe the incident where Gacy had first chased me on my bike. This was the incident that made me distrust Gacy and his friends from then on (until the day I wound up in his car a few years later that is) I was probably about 14-15. I pedaled from my house and was going over to the quarry on a nice summerlike day. I was on my bike heading south on Gerber Road on the far left side of the lonely rural road when Gacy drove his car on the wrong side of the road and very slowly drove alongside me on my bike. He nearly hit me. The car appeared to have one lone occupant that I had a good look at when he drove by. Our faces were only about 4 to 5 feet apart, he is in beater car and me on my bike struggling to get over onto the shoulder of the road to avoid from being hit. He stared at me when he drove slowly by. It was a heavy slob-like Gacy. He was an unknown at the time of course and I had never seen him before. I slowed down and went to the shoulder because he missed me by only a couple of feet. I first thought that the driver was drunk or something. I stopped my bike and stared at his car frightened, wondering who this guy was and what was he doing. He was driving a beater rusty faded light colored green mid 60’s Oldsmobile station wagon: maybe a Delta 98 or 88 with one almost white quarter panel. He then drove very slowly forward about 50 feet past me and stopped his car. I stopped my bike and did not move because he was making me nervous. I became slightly afraid and did not know which way to go. I thought about going back but the road had no close houses in that direction and no place to run to. I was about 200 yards from the first house on Gerber road so I stayed put. I figured I could run on foot if I had to. I think there were only 3 houses on Gerber back then. After about a minute, he took off again and pulled a few feet into the second driveway from me. This made me wonder if perhaps he lived there which prevented me from going up to the houses for possible protection. I did not move and just sat there on my bike frightened. Gacy remained parked in that driveway for about a half minute and then pulled out, backed out onto Gerber Road, continued south and went to the end of the road, (T-intersection) turned left and then parked his car near the old quarry entrance across from Gerber road on Army Trail Road. This is the area I identified as “OPTIONAL THUG PARKING” on my thugmaps of the quarry. Not yet knowing that he had parked his car there, I decided to then proceed to the quarry as planned. I rode up to the end of the road (T-intersection) and then I saw his car parked semi hidden about 150 yards east of the entrance. I turned around because that car being there had me concerned. There were only about 3 houses on Gerber road at that time. I then decided not to go to the quarry as he had frightened me off. I then went back onto Gerber road and headed north to go back towards home. I went over to one of the driveways on Gerber and stayed at the bottom of the driveway for about 10 minutes. I knew I couldn’t stay there because it was not my house and I was a stranger in their driveway. Plus I wondered if the creepy slob in the green Olds station wagon that nearly hit me lived next door. I was torn between being frightened by the guy in the car and wondering if I was over-reacting. I then took off and headed north on Gerber to return to downtown Bartlett. When I was only about a half-minute from the driveway I had stopped at, Gacy’s car returned and zoomed wide past me at about 50mph and kept going. He turned left onto Shick Rd. and zoomed away. I thought I was OK then so I kept going north on Gerber. When I got back onto Shick Road a few minutes later, I turned left and was heading west towards Bartlett Road, I saw that the green Olds was coming back around and was going to drive past me again very slowly, but before Gacy’s eastbound car got to where I was, I got lucky and managed to stop the only other car I had seen in a long time by waving to 2 elderly people in a slow moving westbound car, a new looking Caddy. Gacy had his window down and again I had a good long slow look at him. He glared at me when he drove by very slowly from about 15 feet away, looking like he wanted to talk. But I looked away and told the 2 people in the car that I stopped (an elderly couple) what was going on. I asked the people in the car if they knew him and the elderly man turned and looked at Gacy in the passing car and said no. Gacys car kept going very slowly past us and I did not see him after that. I was lucky the elderly couple was driving down that desolate road, because the closest house was at the driveway I was just at, a half mile away. I then stopped at my friend’s farmhouse on Bartlett Rd. and asked them if they knew who this guy was by describing the car and the driver and my friend said no.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/firstencounterapprox197.png/
this is artwork which shows the situation described in my 1-7-13 post.
I just found out from someone that David F. Cram died in a forest preserve in 2001. Thank You to the person who informed me. I also realized that many of the imageshack viewcounters keep resetting back to lower numbers therefore I am back to having no idea how many people are looking at any of these postings of mine.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/213/davidfcram.jpg/
Attached is a link to a photo of David F. Cram, this is the guy who typically was at position D and G on my map (ref posted 9-27-12 and 8-9-12). I remember this guy very well from at least a dozen encounters.
This original post did not pass moderation so I will repost it with slight changes and hope that it goes through this time.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/10683881-418/women-tell-of-links-between-gacy-friend-and-victim.html
On the above link please read the Feb 2012 story by Frank Main of the Sun Times. At the time that the article was written it was still 5 months away from figuring out the confidential mass murder cleanup at Deep Quarry. The place that is described in the article must be Deep Quarry and the roommate must be Cram or Rossi. The trumpet was sounded and what started off as a heralded new investigation 8 months ago has now taken on the sounds of shifted silence. What squashed the trumpet?
At the time that the article was written it was still 5 months away should read “At the time that the article was written I was still 5 months away…” TYPO
I found out from a New York website that New York will not investigate the pedophile Michael J. Rossi as being a mass murderer at Deep Quarry. They will not even investigate him as being a pedophile despite a mile long record of charges. This is an important victory for criminals everywhere. In some areas, the long arm of the law is slowly turning into the giant middle finger of the law aimed at honest folks, accountable to absolutely nobody, except its omnipotent self. In some areas, the cornerstones of the law are crumbling exposing the giant nameless faceless cockroaches who hide inside and give orders of ultimate stupidity. What America needs right now is one policeman, one lawyer and one judge who will buck this archaic system and go get Rossi. How long must this giant middle finger be poked into the souls of the honest?
Hello none I’m a little interested I’m your story I coincidentally ran into john wayne gacy’s biography today and started to read it and it just kept getting interesting so ended up reading the whole thing, but first and foremost I strongly agree with you that Michael Rossi and David Cram are the two who assisted in the murders. I do believe they killed on their own also and believe that they had gay sexual spiritual demonic religious acts that they did while torturing the victims to their death for some odd reason as soon as I got done reading mr gacy’s bio and it mentioned he could of had accomplices I noticed right away them two same dressing act alike individuals whom you and I both gave previously named above had something to do with it mr gacy had to keep them alive for a reason they were his students he was there teacher he needed them to carry on his legacy (religious acts) and he took the blame for them and himself. I’m not sure if you actually grew up seeing them in quarry as you mentioned but I think Michael Rossi did steal cars cause as I read in bio mr gacy invited one of his employees over to buy his Plymouth satellite and ended up killing him and selling the vehicle to Michael Rossi I think Rossi killed him cause he wanted the car and mr gacy took full blame it did mention Michael Rossi got pulled over in it for stealing gas and they ran the vin and came back to missing victim and he said he bought it off mr gacy the reason he stole gas was to leave town what did he need to leave town for you see there are I believe 6 body’s that are still inidentified correct me if wrong that was under crawl space I believe Michael and David killed out of state and drove bodies back in trunk with victims possibly dead or alive and buried them under crawl space and I believe some times those two individuals would do the killings and mr gacy had sexual relations with the corpse also it does say David Cram commited suicide in woods in 2001 I find that hard to believe I think it was either stage for fake death or there was a cult or victims families got revenge and what was also strange is that his son was 10 at the time whom I looked up also has facebook commited suicide 8 years after in 2009 I think that was the cult or victim family getting revenge again to stop David Crams bloodline this was so interesting to me and how I put it all together and then found you who agrees with some things but probably know more than I do but that’s what I think you know it all makes sense.think about it and research it thanks
I can assure you all that David F. Cram is deceased. I was at his funeral and saw his corpse with my own eyes (his widow is a family friend). He hung himself in La Bagh woods after a long bout with depression, alcoholism, domestic turmoil, and drug abuse. And after knowing the man and the problems in his life (and the demons he must have carried with him), his suicide was not entirely surprising. Tragically and ironically in 2009, his son David IV (at age 18), also took his own life. I do not offer any opinion as to what events transpired in the late 70′s but I can assure all of you who may be concerned about David F. Cram still lurking out there, he is dead and gone.
There are certainly some interesting hypothesis in that post Mr. or Ms. “N.A Right Now”. I am not a researcher at all in anything John Wayne Gacy related unless it helps to bring back my memories. The account that I have given is simply a product of being an actual eyewitness coupled with only enough research to verify the identities of those 2 young men, who turned out to be Cram and Rossi. I assure you that Michael J. Rossi and David F. Cram did mass murder, on their own, at what is now known as Deep Quarry in Dupage County, IL. I assure you that this mass murder site was cleaned up and kept confidential, the details of which may never be known. I can’t say I researched the cleanup to any degree, the results of my light research into this 1979-1980 cleanup practically fell into my lap, as it can for others. There are no doubts about either of these events. I fear slightly the wrongful accusations of slander however I do have truth and honesty on my side whereas others have a complex matrix which requires the rehearsals of many. Rossi would be a fool to pursue the path of slander. His only hope is relentless hiding and denial, wherever he is. As for the police, I am at the mercy of lawyers, judges and lawmen who can railroad me if they choose to, and do so until the cows come home. I personally don’t think it is a good idea to make a fabricated public example out of a witness, but you never know.
In all walks of life, we are made accountable for our mistakes. This is pounded into our thought process when we are young. This is one of the harsher realities of how we learn. The Blue Code of Silence by which some government employees abide can sometimes contradict and completely nullify this basic human learning requirement and falsely elevate those who incorrectly use it to a false status of perfection, when in reality no human is perfect. The 33 year old cleanup made through possible loopholes is probably a mute point, made mute by the march of time. Putting Rossi away and whoever else is mixed up in this is what I am now hoping for. I am a witness in waiting, waiting for the truth to prevail. If I am wearing Pollyanna rose colored glasses so be it. A good dose of optimism will quench the angry soul.
http://imageshack.us/f/802/gacystrunk1975.png/
This is artwork showing exactly what Gacys trunk looked like about 1975 in what I think was an Olds 88 approx 1965 model freshly painted black. There were implements, poles, rope and what I think were pool floats, along with some other stuff. Gacy stopped me from walking up and looking inside the trunk after I accepted a ride from him to go to a campsite in another town. The bars (thugclub/ramrod) inside his trunk were similar to the clubs that Cram and Rossi were always running around with on the path of death. I saw Gacy driving Cram and Rossi (and one other) there from time to time. There is more on these thugclubs above in other posts and how I unknowingly took one from Cram and Rossi. One of them chased me to get it back but I was too far ahead and took off in my car. The authorities now have the thugclub.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/thugclubandramrod1.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/thugclubandramrod2.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/225/davidfcramandmichaeljro.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/davidfcrampointingatmea.png/
To clarify the descriptions of the 2 imageshack links. The first image /225/ was what I saw when I first entered the path of death. Cram would be pretending to fish with either his fake pole (thugclub) or sometimes he used a real fishing pole. He would be at the position “D” as shown on my thugmap. Rossi would always be at the other end of the creek pretending to fish with his thugclub which was position “E” on my 2 thugmaps. At the time I thought the thugclubs were short fat fishing poles. I encountered Cram and Rossi many times in this same configuration, always staring at me. Usually I turned around right there because I did not like those guys because they were friends with Gacy. The second image /885/ was what I saw after I started to walk southbound down the path one day. As usual, they were both staring at me as I entered the path. I looked back when I was halfway between Cram and Rossi. I saw that Cram had his pole pointed straight at me. I then saw Rossi walking up the hill towards the path I was on. He was hidden in the trees but I saw him anyway. I turned around then. There is more on this event in my Aug 16th 2012 post. An interesting note that particular day; when I first arrived that day in my car, one of the thugs was standing about 50 yards south of the parking lot, mostly hidden by the shrubs. He was looking towards the parking lot like he was waiting for someone. When he saw me enter the main path on foot after parking my car he then took off and went to his fake fishing spot. This was the day that they went after me on the path of death as mentioned above and in my Aug 16th post. This was a few weeks or months after I had accidently taken one of their thugclubs.
This is a map showing the above situation;
http://imageshack.us/edit.php?url%5B%5D=703/7586/967956936/quarryrossicramgacythug.png/y
This map is easier to access than the map above.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/quarryrossicramgacythug.png/
I have no idea what the police are doing, therefore I need to give this at least 1 year before I progress to a more aggressive approach. I will occasionally issue more artwork to this website and to imageshack though.
WHO IS CALLING THE SHOTS?
In 1979 the Cook County police cordially invited the media to attend the excavation at Gacy’s home on Summerdale Ave thus showing the media and the public how willing the government was to show us every step of the way in their investigation, thus proving their honesty to the media and the public by showing them everything; while Dupage County remained silent.
Fast forward to 2012; Cook County is now showing the media and the public how willing the government is to show us every step of the way in this new Gacy investigation with constant reports, thus proving their honesty to the media and the public by showing them everything; while Dupage County remains silent.
Sound familiar, it should because it’s 1979 style duping, decoying and deception tactics; I contend that somebody(s) is telling the police what to do. Politicians created this mess by telling the police what to do in 1979 and politicians continue this mess by telling the police what to do in 2012, in both cases to avoid bad publicity I assume. I agree that Sheriff Tom Dart and Sheriff John Zaruba were dealt a wickedly bad hand by their predecessors. Governmental silence controls the front door of the media in this Cram Rossi Gacy matter, for the major media cannot report anything that the government hides. Thus far this is working quite well for somebody, whoever that is, but that’s not what the police took their oaths for. Politicians are almost expected to disregard their oaths, but the police are not. When mass murderers walk free then it is time for a separation of police and politicians.
Here is my rough draft for a petition:
PERMANENT LEGAL SEPARATION OF POLICE AND POLITICIANS PART 1 (rough draft)
We the undersigned, wish to change the laws in Illinois to make it a federal crime for any elected official to mandate investigative directives, or to influence in any manner any police organization during any investigation.
Exclusions; Governor, Judges, States Attorneys, County Sheriffs.
The main reason for this petition will be to remove individuals with limited law enforcement expertise from the law enforcement branch and to remove conflicts of personal interest.
Free legal advice and help is always welcome.
PERMANENT LEGAL SEPARATION OF POLICE AND POLITICIANS PART 2 (rough draft)
We the undersigned, wish to change the laws of the United States of America to make it a federal crime for any elected official to mandate the non-investigation of a felony crime.
Exclusions; none.
The main reason for this petition will be to provide a documentation trail for future discovery and to remove conflicts of personal interest.
Free legal advice and help is always welcome.
http://imageshack.us/f/202/rossicramtryvicskey.jpg/
Here is artwork showing when I caught Cram (standing) and Rossi trying a victim’s key in my ignition. Rossi stood up and put the keys in his pocket which then caused me to check my own pockets to see if I left my keys in the car. They stood and laughed at me. I just laughed back at them and smiled. Then Rossi did an air whacking maneuver near my head like he was hitting me with a pole. They kept laughing the whole time. I got in my car. Rossi was then quickly looking up and down Army Trail road and then started to come back towards my car but I got out of there just in the nick of time before he got too close. Cram just sat on a big rock laughing the whole time. Gacy was nowhere around, it was just those 2 cold blooded killers killing people and stealing their cars, business as usual to those idiots.
I am faced with one paradox and one hypocrisy;
1) My hypocrisy; The same organization (the police) that I am asking to keep my identity a secret forever is also the same organization that I am accusing of investigative oversight in 1979. I need to stop punching people in the nose.
2) My paradox; By keeping the first suspicious place that Gacy took me to a secret, I am now doing one of the things that the police did in 1979 which is keeping secrets. These secrets could block other trails.
In light of these 2 predicaments, I have backed down on my criticism of the situation and will wait at least one year before the next major step.
THIS POST BELOW IS ONLY ABOUT GACY AND NOT CRAM OR ROSSI.
Shown below is a modified excerpt from one of my Gacy reports which I had sent to the police 6-25-2010. At that time I had just recently started back up with recalling the events of the late 70’s and was still in the process of clarifying my old memories. Described below is the previously mentioned location that Gacy that taken me to. This was the place that I cannot disclose the name of due to that fact that the property is privately owned and children are often there therefore it would be wrong of me to disclose this area. The police statement given to me after my initial report was “there were no reports”. This vague statement with double meaning potential was when I first started getting suspicious of a secret cleanup at all Gacy sites. It is my personal opinion that there were indicators in this event that lead me to believe that the area described below may have been covertly cleaned up. I give it a very good chance that something happened there based upon the fact that this was a place where Gacy told me he often took people to, it was abandoned for many years, the abandoned building where he took me to stunk very badly, it was a place that he was very familiar with, it was also a place where he told me that he spent a great deal of time at. The police absolutely cleaned up Deep Quarry which leads me to believe that they cleaned up other areas as well and perhaps this place as well. This event coincided at the same period of time that Cram and Rossi were always hanging out on the “path of death” at Deep Quarry. This separate event shows us that Cram, Gacy, Rossi, and potentially others had their own agendas and their own special spots, although I occasionally seen them all together at the quarry. I am purposely leaving some of the information in this event out.
START;
During the warm seasons of what I believe is about 1974 or 75, I had pedaled my 10 speed bike from my home to the quarry now known as Deep Quarry in rural Dupage County. I stopped at a foundation of an old torn down barn on Shick road. There were no homes on Shick Road from the Mallard Lake area to Route 59 at that time. The barn foundation was on the south side of the road. I was about 70 yards away from the road, on the west side of the barn foundation. I was about 20 feet from the west wall of the foundation. It was the afternoon. This barn foundation was only 1/4 mile away from the quarry on the gravel portion of Shick road.
(I art worked and drew a map of this pickup point on an earlier posting.)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/firstencounterapprox197.png/
After a few minutes I noticed a large low 2 door shiny black hardtop car with a dark haired man looking at me. The man stared at me for a few minutes. My first reaction was that I was in trouble for being on someone’s property so I went back to looking at the foundation and moved further from the road and closer to the wall, but still on the west side of the foundation, to get out of the view from the man in the car. After a minute or 2 the car drove up to where I was standing with my bike. He parked to the north of me by about 25 feet and quite close to the building. It was a car with a very sleek roofline and large long tall windows, the windows were all open. It was a large expensive car, very airy, in excellent condition, pure black, very shiny and flawless. I have looked at pictures a little bit to help locate the model. I think it was about a 1965 Delta 88. It may have actually been one of the same cars he had earlier except it was painted and the rust was removed.
Gacy was much thinner this time and I did not recognize him at first as the man from the previous incidents, he also had his rusty Oldsmobile painted shiny gloss black or else it was a different car, he was wearing nicer clothes, he was clean shaven, and he was not aggressive. The man got out of his car. He was about 5-10 and weighed about 230 pounds. He was not the really heavy guy I had seen 2 years earlier, he was a cleaner, thinner looking Gacy, he was only a little chubby. He had on nice clothes and he wore black pants with a belt. He had on a dark nylon windbreaker. He had on light colored sunglasses that made him look like he was wearing regular glasses at first. But then I realized they were light sunglasses, I am fairly certain they were rose colored. He walked behind his car and stopped close to it. He kept his hands in his windbreaker pockets from the time he got out of the car until he talked me into getting into his car. He kept arching up on his shoes every 20 seconds or so, and pushing his hands into his jacket while I was looking at him and talking to him.
He asked me what I was doing. I told him I was looking at the foundation of the barn. He asked me “exactly what part of the foundation are you looking at that interests you so much”. I answered by pointing at the foundation and pointing out a few things and I spoke a sentence or two. I remember thinking I was in trouble for being there. When I first started talking he was standing perhaps 20 feet away from me. Standing there, hands in his pockets, arching up on his shoes. Not looking at me, but looking at the foundation too. After I looked away from him and I started to point out a few things, I looked back at him and he was standing right behind me about 3 feet away and slightly to my left. He was clearly in my personal zone and he got there real quick and real silently in the short time it took me to speak and point. I first thought I saw him in the corner of my eye moving toward me at a pretty good speed, his quick motion was like a blur. By the time my head was completely turned around, he was standing there, wobbling from the momentum of his quick stop. He had both hands in his windbreaker pockets, staring straight ahead in a blank stare, not once making eye contact with me. I had a very good close-up look at him, and I remember it well. It was almost like I stopped him with the motion of turning my head around to look at him. I never had great eyes and I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me. I got nervous and said bye, I pushed off on my bike and started to ride off.
He said “You don’t have to leave, I’m not going to hurt you, I just like to talk to people, I like to hear about the things they like to do”….he called himself a real friendly person that loves to talk to all kinds of people. I can’t remember verbatim what he said after that, but I did stop, and I did talk to him, he was easy going. He explained that he was in charge (and a counselor) of a local organization for some religious group. He said he was on his way over there to do some work on the place, he used the word “we” when talking about the work that was going on, leading me to believe that there were others there working with him. He said that he would drive me over there so that I could meet lots of kids my own age, and that it would be a lot more fun than just riding around on my bike like I was doing. We walked around a little bit (but never far from his car) and he talked me into going with him. He somehow befriended me and talked me into getting into his car. Like a big idiot I agreed to go with him. I walked back to get my bike. As I was pushing my bike towards his car I saw him doing something in the trunk, he was pushing a large object as far forward as he could to the space under the rear window. His hands were about a foot apart while he was pushing forward. I was on the passenger side of the car about 15 feet away when he was doing this. He motioned with his hands for me to stop coming forward, and asked me to leave the bike there (about 6 feet from the car) and asked me to go wait up by the front of the car. What I briefly saw in the trunk from my vantage point was; on the far left side of the trunk (drivers side), running front to back were a small pile of tubular (or round bodied) objects, I could not see the heads on them because the heads were too far forward in the trunk, some could easily have been garden tools, and some looked like galvanized poles or heavy pipes. Some looked well used but some of the pipes looked newer. The pipes were too small to be fencing and too heavy looking and short to be for a tent. The pipes looked to be all about the same diameter and length. (I have since art worked the trunk, see above for the link)
http://imageshack.us/f/802/gacystrunk1975.png/
The pipes were silver colored and about 1” in diameter. All items were at least 2.5 feet long. Most had a light smattering of what looked like mortar or concrete dust. I could only see half the trunk from my brief vantage point. (I have since realized that I had one of these poles in my possession, which I accidently took from Cram and Rossi at the quarry in ‘76 or ’77. I have since sent the rod to the authorities.) Please see my previous postings regarding these thugclubs.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/thugclubandramrod1.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/thugclubandramrod2.jpg/
On top of the tubular objects was about 20-40 feet of beige rope, about 5/16 diameter looped in a large oval, draped across the tubular objects and also draping across the floor of the trunk. Next to the pile of tubular objects and sitting on top of the rope, were 2 more objects, running front to back in line with each other. Each one was about 10-12 inches long, 4 inches wide, mostly round, plastic, and had tapered ends which I now realize were dirty white pool floats.
After he motioned for me to stop, he asked me to go up to the front of the car so I turned around and did what he asked. Realizing the guy did not want me to see what was in his trunk; I waited up by the front of the car for about 2 minutes. He was standing straight up doing something with his hands. He was partly hidden behind the upright trunk lid so I could not see exactly what he was doing. He never did try to put my bike in the trunk. He finally closed the trunk. He kept pushing something forward in his left pocket as he was closing the trunk. Every pocket shove he would do with a blank stare facing forward, never once looking at me when he did it. After he closed the trunk lid and did one of his blank stare left pocket thrusts, he looked at me standing by the passenger door and did a quick little half-smile, and then he looked to his left and did a twice as long squinty eyed smile to himself. I turned away for a few seconds thinking that this guy looked like a grinning jackass. When I looked back, the driver’s door was open and he was standing by my bike, looking towards it, putting on a pair of extremely tight fitting little gloves, fighting to get them on with his right hand pointed straight up flexing his fingers like a doctor putting on surgical gloves. He then rolled my bike over to the driver’s side and put the bike in the back seat. After he put my bike in the back seat he walked around the car, continuing to do his left hand pocket thrusts pushing something forward each time in his pocket. He opened the passenger door for me and I got in. I noticed that the door handle was missing on the door. He commented on it when he saw me staring at the missing item. I felt a little uneasy but somehow he smoothed me over explaining he was working on the car earlier. I felt at ease because the windows were all open at that particular moment when I first got in. The inside doors were black. The inside door covering had a fake leather look with pressed seams running parallel spaced every inch or so. There was large metal logo writing on the dashboard in front of me that I think was an 88 logo.
As we were pulling onto the graveled Shick road, I told Gacy he had a nice car, and I believe his response was “this is my (forgotten male relation) car; usually his (forgotten female relation) drives it.” I cannot remember what the relationships were. Now I think he was lying anyway because I think that maybe it was the same car he was driving earlier, only painted.
He had a rolled joint propped up sitting in his ashtray, like it was on display. I thought that was a really brave and stupid thing to do. Eventually he smoked that joint. He told me to help myself to any of the many previously smoked half joint butts in his ashtray, which I did not do. It was at this point I believe he rolled up all the windows. He smoked the joint, leaning out the window and blowing smoke out from time to time.
As we went down the road he told me he had “a half of a sandwich” left in his “lunchbox” and offered it to me. I glanced around the vehicle but did not see a lunchbox. Then he asked me if I knew of a place to eat around there. It struck me as curious as to how he could work in this area but did not know the local places to eat. Yet it did not click danger to me. I told him, “not around here” and then I explained I did not live in the nearby area and then I told him where I lived.
Gacy then asked me “Do you ever shoot balloons?” It was a strange question so I paused for a while and then answered by telling him that I had thrown darts at balloons.” Then Gacy said something similar to “When we get there we’ll shoot some balloons and shoot some plates too. We tie them to boards and all kinds of things and shoot at them. It’s a lot of fun.” He then said something that inferred the use of an air gun of some sort and this would happen down at the lake and there would be balloons and plates all over the place. I envisioned quite a few kids doing this in my mental image due to what he said. I thought he was a little different, but he seemed friendly enough. I had never met a religious counselor before. I had only met priests. This guy had me completely fooled.
He drove a little while more into another town and whipped right into the driveway of a place that looked remote, and I mean he “whipped in”. As soon as he did this, he immediately started to reach to his right to grab something next to him near the seat, but then he stopped suddenly when something caught his eye. Suddenly he was startled to see people, lots of people up by a house, walking all over the place. He said “Why are these people here?” “What are they doing here?” He repeated himself a few times, almost mumbling with each repeat. He was clearly upset and agitated. He could have turned around and drove me somewhere else to kill me but he didn’t. He was clearly interested in getting up to the house.
It was at that moment that I became slightly nervous again, I felt trapped in his car with the missing handle. I was confused because he told me he was taking me to meet kids my own age. I thought he would be happy that so many people were there. He was not acting religious at all. He was angry but then he calmed down and once again smoothed me over with pleasantness. I felt more at ease when he kept driving towards the house. Then I started to think that he was just an upset boss. By the time we got to the house I was actually feeling stupid for being frightened. What a relief when he stopped the car in front of the house and in front of a lot of people.
The drive from the road to the house was a long and isolated distance. The house was not visible from the street. There were a lot of people there. He parked right in front of everyone else right next to the house. When he first got out of the car, he removed his jacket. He did this slowly and carefully facing the car with his door open. He leaned far to the left when taking it off. He practically hit his head on the door when leaning so far left. He did not want whatever was in his left pocket to be disturbed or even seen because he was so close to the door. He must have put the jacket in the trunk while I was sitting there waiting for him to open my door (because of the missing door handle). By the time he came around the car to open the door for me, the jacket was gone. He then held the door and the front seat open all the way and instructed me to get the bike out of the backseat. I went in and grabbed the bike myself while he stood there just staring at the house. Never once did his bare hands ever touch my bike. The whole time he got out and was holding the door for me, he kept looking up at the house repeatedly while doing all this.
We walked into the house together. I remember that house smelling very musty and odiferous when I walked in, but it was vacant for awhile, I suppose it could have been anything. The door was propped open and I remember the smell hitting me right at the door. In my opinion it was the same sick smell as an old low budget funeral home. But I suppose it could have been dead rats or animals too, although the smell was slightly different.
After we walked in, I kept waiting for people to run up to him. I kept waiting for him to go to his office or to talk to other people who worked there. But nobody came up to him and nobody talked to him. He did not go into another room or anything. He just walked around like me, looking at the pamphlets and brochures of local businesses and religious organizations that were on the tables. There was a big event going on, like a company picnic or church picnic of some sort. Despite a room full of people nobody ever approached him, and he did not approach anyone else either. We were there for about 10-15 minutes looking at all the pamphlets. I kept looking at him and started to wonder if perhaps this guy was a phony. People were coming and going and there were always between 4 and 10 people in that room.
After walking around the room looking at brochures, Gacy stayed at one end of the room looking forward down a hallway with a closed door. He looked many times to his left. Sometimes he would bob his head in an effort to see better when he was turning his head left. He stayed at that end of the room for about 10 minutes. He was clearly interested in what was on the other side of the closed doors in the room, as well as what was outside on one side of the house, which I believe was a small lake or pond, but I am not 100% certain that it was the water he was looking at. He did sway back and forth in the general area as shown in the map. He did look at new people walking through the front door as well. Most of the time when new people walked in, he would look at them and then look down, half-spin around and then go back to his staring straight ahead for a little while. At no time while we were there did anyone walk through the closed doors in the room.
Eventually he grabbed a brochure and signed the inside. And then instead of signing his name he used his first 2 initials and then his last name. After he signed the brochure, he said he had things to do and walked away and went down by the lake. He had on a light colored short sleeved polo style shirt tucked in with a belt on. He was nicely dressed. He did not talk to anyone except me the entire time I was there.
He wrote what you see in the attachment “call me”, plus he signed his name in fairly neat capital printed block letters (J.W.GACY) with periods included. After he signed the brochure he dismissed me and told me to call him sometime. I last saw him walking quickly and heading down toward the water by himself. I hopped on my bike and got out of there originally thinking the guy was a phony although I must have given him the benefit of the doubt because I returned there later that week in a car with my friend; however Gacy’s car was not there, and the place was void of people. My friend went over there later that week and nobody was there.
The realization of slander lawsuits on behalf of a mass murderer in regards to Deep Quarry may unfortunately be a textbook example to show the people the grotesquely magnified effects of a non-investigated major crime, to show the people the magnified ill effects of the misuse of the blue code of silence, and it also serves to show the people how even a mass murderer can be multi-protected by the laws that were designed to protect honest people. Mr. Michael J. Rossi, who was Gacy’s employee, wherever he is, is sitting smug right now (as was Mr. David F. Cram and potentially others), multi-protected by; 1) The non-investigation of the late 1970’s mass murders covertly and incorrectly blamed on John Wayne Gacy. 2) The blue code of silence; 3) The potential volley of attorneys, through no fault of their own, who are willing to work for free, willing to take up the cause of protecting a mass murderer from “supposed” slander simply because there are “no reports”. 4) The potential Judges and Jurys, through no fault of their own, who can falsely and unjustly punish witnesses, simply because non-disclosure and non-investigation was the chosen and protected plan in 1979. All of these reasons can falsely prosecute the innocent, tie up the court systems, waste tax dollars and bring to public spotlight witnesses whose desires were to always remain anonymous for the safety of their family from lunatics and sympathizers. Unjustly finalized slander suits would be another coffin nail in the ethical protocols of justice, the protection of victims and witnesses rights, and the system of due process. If anyone needs legal protection from the misuse of power it is the people, and NOT the criminals. This all could have been avoided with simple honesty in government that used strict proper protocol. There are no valid reasons to protect the interests of a mass murderer.
Enough is enough Mr. Rossi, I will take the chance that there is no other human with your exact looks, name and age. I will be putting your photo on imageshack very soon Mr. Rossi. You were David F. Crams friend and together you killed a lot of people in that quarry during the late 70′s. History called you and Cram “innocent kids”. But with all the bloodshed lately history now knows what kids are capable of. You cannot undo with good deeds all the damage that you have done. Please contact the Dupage or Cook County police and turn yourself in.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/10/19/high-school-principals-arrest-stuns-upstate-n-y-town/
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120111/NEWS/201110335/-1/SITEMA
There is a lot more on this guy if you search the internet. This is the guy who, although aged, looks exactly like mass murdering thug#2 (from all my artwork, maps and postings) from what is now known as Deep Quarry ( a confidential mass murder site) in Dupage County during the late 70′s. I need more witnesses. If anyone else had seen or knows of Cram, Rossi, Gacy or any of their other friends in that area during the late 70′s please contact the Cook or Dupage County police to help collaborate my story. Without more witnesses or evidence my story could be dismissed.
Mr. Michael J. Rossi, the mass murdering friend of Cram and Gacy’s at Deep Quarry is in one heck of an inescapable quandary. Failure to sue me for slander is an admission of guilt as far as I am concerned and if he does foolishly attempt to sue me for slander it would be impossible for him to contain the ilk and magnitude of the hidden evil he possesses inside under the subtle manipulation of courtroom psychology. Despite the fact that the police are not talking, not admitting any wrong doing and our politicians possess the strongest code of silence in the country, there is no way that a mass murderer is going to walk. That much evil will never triumph in an Illinois courtroom. Michael J. Rossi is in a lose/lose situation and time is running out. Michael J. Rossi needs to turn himself in to the Dupage County or the Cook County police while there is still time to do it quietly.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/firstencounterapprox197.png/
I am moving this down to see if I get more hits on imageshack. This is my first Gacy encounter map. This was a couple of years before I started seeing David F. Cram and Michael J. Rossi showing up and killing people and throwing them in the lake.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/legal-separation-of-police-and-politics/
We the undersigned, wish to change the laws of the United States of America to make it a federal crime for any elected official to mandate investigative directives, or to influence in any manner any police organization during any felony investigation.
Exclusions; Governor, Judges, States Attorneys, County Sheriffs.
The main reason for this petition will be to remove individuals with limited law enforcement expertise from the law enforcement branch and to remove conflicts of personal interest.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/legal-separation-of-police-and-politics/
NO PETITION SIGNATURES, NO MEDIA COVERAGE!
Is it the peoples fear of the government? Is it apathy? Is it disbelief? If I were a betting man I would bet on sheer disbelief. My allegations towards the politicians are a tough pill to swallow. There was the ordering of; falsifying death records, tampering with evidence, moving victim’s remains around, intentionally not launching a mass murder investigation, possible court fraud, possible perjury, duping the public with false statements, decoying the media with Summerdale Ave, creating an air of mystery regarding the fates of these victims, ordering the police to follow questionable orders, ordering the police both past and present to follow the blue code of silence, secretly placing blame entirely on Gacy without due process, playing word games with “no reports, etc, etc. Why would anyone believe a dirty laundry list of this stinking magnitude?
STILL NO PETITION SIGNERS!
I ask the few people who are actually reading this; Do we want politicians who are minimally trained in law enforcement telling the police what to do? Do we want murderers and thugs running around on our streets simply because politicians think they know what’s best? Only the people can stop this from happening. The politicians are not going to stop themselves. The police cannot stop the politicians because they often take their orders from them. By allowing politicians to pull stunts like Deep Quarry and other lesser stunts, we are giving them the green light to do whatever they want. We pay their salaries and often give them lifetime benefits paid for with our taxes. This is the peoples country, not the politicians own personal empire to do whatever they want. They are supposed to be public servants but somehow along the way they have placed themselves to be above the citizens, above the laws of the land, above the laws of humanity and even above the basic rules of common sense. If Cram and Rossi had killed one of their friends or family member it would be a whole different story. Please sign the petitions to separate the police from the politicians.
NEXT YEAR 2014.
This is a rough draft for a petition during the summer next year if John Wayne Gacy’s employee Michael J. Rossi is not brought to justice due to stonewalling by public officials. This is not a witch hunt for public officials. This is bringing one of the worst mass murderers in history to justice. I will not allow a political agenda to stand in the way of justice.
—START OF PROPOSED 2014 PETITION—-
PERMANENT LEGAL SEPARATION OF POLICE AND POLITICIANS PART 3
“DEEP QUARRY MASS MURDERS COVER UP”
We the undersigned citizens of the United States of America believe in honesty in government and demand to know the truth in regards to the existence of the confidential late 1970’s mass murder site at what is now known as Deep Quarry in Dupage County IL. We further demand that the following public officials and employees be given legal depositions in order to launch a federal probe to get to the truth as to ALL of the true perpetrators of these heinous mass murders;
1- X
2- X
3- Etc, etc.
We further demand to know the truth about;
1) x?
2) x?
3) Etc, etc,
The purpose of this petition will be to open up an investigation into the mass murders at Deep Quarry, something our government supposedly never did.
I will drop this if Rossi is brought to justice.
—END OF PROPOSED 2014 PETITION—-
The above petition was cancelled but may return someday.
PERMANENT LEGAL SEPARATION OF POLICE AND POLITICIANS PART 2
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/permanent-legal-separation-of-police-and/
We the undersigned, wish to change the laws of the United States of America to make it a federal crime for any public official or public employee to mandate the non-investigation of a felony crime.
Exclusions; none.
The main reason for this petition will be to provide a documentation trail for future discovery and to remove conflicts of personal interest.
The above petition was cancelled but may return someday.
PERMANENT LEGAL SEPARATION OF POLICE AND POLITICIANS PART 1
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/legal-separation-of-police-and-politics/
We the undersigned, wish to change the laws of the United States of America to make it a federal crime for any elected official to mandate investigative directives, or to influence in any manner any police organization during any felony investigation.
Exclusions; Governor, Judges, States Attorneys, County Sheriffs.
The main reason for this petition will be to remove individuals with limited law enforcement expertise from the law enforcement branch and to remove conflicts of personal interest.
The above petition was cancelled but may return someday.
STILL NO PETITION SIGNERS!
OK now I give up, it’s all coming back, the incredible despair of being disbelieved, this reminds me too much of what I went through years ago when I told people that Gacy was running around Shick Road, Mallard Lake, the quarry (Deep Quarry) and that other remote place Gacy took me to in order to murder me, the one I feel I should not mention because children now go there and they never tore the building down. Without resolution of morally just and honest principals our government is leaving a message that evil can win, that even mass murderers can go free, that lies and dishonesty are valued in society, that truth in government is only a myth, that oaths have no meaning. Illinois, you have laid the groundwork for our kids to grow up to be just like you guys, or worse yet, like Cram and Rossi, for what deterrent have they None!
18 MONTHS!
You all have 18 months before I launch class action lawsuits and publicize my petitions. In a macabre camaraderie of misfortune many honest lawmen and mass murderer Mr. Michael J. Rossi are all bound by the same quest, to pretend Deep Quarry never happened. 18 months gentlemen. You have my solemn word that I will drop all of this if Rossi is brought to justice within this 18 month period. -The Deep Quarry witness
Please beware of any postings by people who claim to be me; however as of today I still haven’t seen any. I have intentionally left a great deal of information out. To see the progression of my recollections and investigation please sort the “postings of none” by date starting on July 4th, 2012.
Turn yourself in Mr. Rossi, while there is still time to do so quietly.
You will probably be somewhat protected by a group of Illinois lawmen and politicians who obviously want Deep Quarry hushed up. If anybody has any questions or concerns please email me at deepquarry@yahoo.com
-The Deep Quarry witness
Does anyone believe me? -The Deep Quarry witness. deepquarry@yahoo.com
Yes, I think many things you’ve said seem real and believable. I’m just not sure that this series of events, as heinous as it may be, and which would have occurred over 30 years ago, is the right rallying cry to clean up any corruption that currently exists in the police department. Most of the officers who were in charge at the time are likely no longer with the department and current ones are probably not privy to the details of what occurred at the time. .
Thanks Cliff for your honesty and input, I just pulled the petitions, they were going nowhere fast. As I stated and inferred several times; I am not on a witch hunt for those public officials responsible 30 years ago but I needed some spark to get Sheriff John Zaruba to stop burying his head in the sand. John Zaruba was around back then, he was young but he knows what happened. I commend his willingness to protect the police brotherhood and the old politicians from the unfortunate calamity of 1979 that was initially done with the best of intentions, but now in the age of information things have changed, and Zaruba is now, perhaps unknowingly, enabling one of the most prolific mass murderers of all time to remain free. By now Sheriff Tom Dart and Becker-Stephenson hopefully have found others to help put the thumbscrews on Rossi and his friends however Deep Quarry is in rural Dupage County and Sheriff John Zaruba needs to get out of the dugout and step up to the plate; it is going to take an entire team to finish this and main players should not be watching from the dugout.
STILL NO EMAILS, NO SIGNERS, STILL NOTHING!
How frustrating and humiliating, at least the right people know that I am telling the truth and that is my family, the police and old politicians and of course one of the mass murderers himself, Michael J. Rossi who I identified on the internet who needs to turn himself in, or foolishly defend himself in court, or do nothing except enjoy the book(s) that someone will release about Cram and himself even if I have to do it myself. -The Deep Quarry witness. email at deepquarry@yahoo.com
I have created over 100 pages of documents and emails, including artwork. I have risked defamation lawsuits from some of the most powerful people in government both past and present. I have risked defamation lawsuits from Michael J. Rossi, who I identified on the internet
Continued. as being a mass murderer. No 55 year old man would ever make up a story so long, so complex, and so risky in defamation from so many very powerful people. No 55 year old man would risk police retaliation or railroading unless he was telling the truth. My freedom from police railroading is a testament to the truths I speak regarding the Deep Quarry mass murder coverup and Rossi, Cram and Gacy’s involvement. -the deep quarry witness F.
PLEASE UNSEAL THE DEEP QUARRY RECORDS.
I was not asking in my petitions to clean up the corruption within the police departments so much as trying to loosen the grip that the politicians have over the police. The Deep Quarry quagmire of deception spawned by the 1979 politicians is just one ugly example of the many stunts that politicians pull on a regular basis. The end result of politicians sealing records and mandating secrecy specifically in the case of Deep Quarry has turned out to be a glaring example of what can now be called blind accidental stupidity. The police became pawns at that point and the citizens became the recipients of supreme injustice, thus ensuring a perpetual situation where the table of protection has been turned backwards to protect only the criminals. In the case of Deep Quarry; 2 young mass murdering thugs made a monkey out of the system and the governmental response is denial thereby creating a diabolical blueprint for future thugs who now respect the actions of Cram and Rossi. Is our government as an entity that damn broken to be so blind? Only time will tell.
STOP SHOVELING THE MANURE.
Blind accidental stupidity when desperately concealed becomes absolute stupidity.
That manure comment was aimed at the Dupage County, Cook County and Illinois government as an entity regarding the Deep Quarry coverup and not at anybody in particular. Any insults felt personal by any one individual person is strictly accidental and unintended.
This cannot be any more personally depressing, 30 years of being unjustifiably made to look like a storyteller and a liar by the very government that is supposed to protect honest citizens but instead has chosen to protect its own screwups thereby enabling mass murderers to go free. Deep Quarry is the most screwed up situation ever in the history of law unenforcement political decision making. I have a personal “Go to hell list” but there are no public records of it. -the deep quarry witness F.
TO THE MAJOR MEDIA (big major newspapers)
I have sent a few emails to the major media (big major newspapers), and they do not even have the common courtesy to respond to me even ONCE. The major media who are not listening to me are being (for lack of better terms) gigantic dumbasses who need to pull their thumbs out of their butts and their noses out of the butts of the major screwups who orchestrated the Deep Quarry secret cleanup and stop being pawns for government coverups. I don’t care how many awards, speeches, documentaries, books or public landmarks are named after these people. These people need to fix their mistakes like everyone else has to. They are not demi gods, they are humans who screwed up and now they need to fix it. The people who orchestrated this event have accidently enabled mass murderers to remain free for 30 plus years and counting. Don’t be decoyed and manipulated like the press was during the 1979 Summerdale decoy. -The Deep Quarry Witness F.
There are more murderous kid in the news again, yet history continues to call Cram and Ross innocent kids who were under Gacys spell. Damn it Zaruba, Doria, Elrod and Thompson, I saw them kill people that I can descibe.You all accidently protected mass murderers and now your towered ego intentionally still protects them. Your oversight will soon turn into a full blown conspiracy against the people unless you fix your mistake.
THERE ARE 5 MEN;
who are at great risk to their legacies regarding the public concealment of the Deep Quarry mass murders. I beseech them all to get the ball rolling and investigate the true perpetrators of the mass murders which were concealed from the public in 1979 at Deep Quarry. I have given the authorities 2 positive identifications (1 living in NY and 1 deceased) and just recently enough information to possibly identify a third abductor on the path of death. I particularly beseech 3 men who concealed Deep Quarry from the public in 1979 to not rest upon their laurels nor underestimate the public bulldogs. The ruse is over, you all had a good run at it, now please fix what you started before history distorts your endeavors. In this case, your legacies will be rooted only in your final honesties.
–The Deep Quarry witness F.
You 5 men are in the very least guilty of the crimes shown below because there is no statute of limitation on murder, especially mass murder. The 1979 extensive laundry list of unmitigated pomposity pales in comparison to allowing mass murderers continued freedom in today’s world. You now have 15 months to fix your oversight before I take it upon myself to bring legal action upon you. Of course you are all lawyers and lawmen. You are the people who imprison others for doing what you yourselves have done and are still doing. You are or were at the highest levels of Illinois government. Do not railroad me to “prove your integrity” because too many people know the truth of what you have done, including yourselves and God. You of all people know how to fix this oversight, so please do so.
A person obstructs justice when, with intent to prevent the apprehension or obstruct the prosecution or defense of any person, he knowingly commits any of the following acts:
(a) Destroys, alters, conceals or disguises physical evidence, plants false evidence, furnishes false information.
“A person is an accessory to a crime if, with intent to hinder, delay or PREVENT the discovery, detection, apprehension, prosecution, conviction or punishment of another for the commission of a crime, he renders assistance to such person.” This crime can be up to a Class 4 FELONY, punishable by up to two (2) years in prison and/or a fine up to $500,000.00
COPY OF LETTER SENT TO DUPAGE COUNTY THIS MORNING.
Gentlemen,
1) I am now ready to forsake my anonymity and publicly accuse Michael J. Rossi Sr. of Rock Tavern NY who partnered with David F. Cram (deceased) with mass murder at Deep Quarry.
2) 1979 loopholes and/or blind accidental stupidity by sealing records or intentionally not taking reports are not valid reasons to protect one of the worst mass murderers in history.
3) Please explain to:
-Sheriff of Dupage County John Zaruba,
-former Shrf. Of Dupage County Richard Doria,
-former Gov. of IL James Thompson
-former Shrf. Of Cook County Richard Elrod
that there are no valid reasons to protect mass murderers.
4) Anyone who disagrees with the statement that there are NO VALID REASONS TO PROTECT MASS MURDERERS needs to explain why.
5) This email will eventually be distributed, please prepare your answer to question #4.
Thanks,
F……………….
shadowreports note:
(Yes I am worried, I have the utmost distrust in the government at this point. Their actions in 1979 and even now are unfathomable. -The Deep Quarry Witness F.)
Michael J. Rossi, I challenge you to sue me for defamation!
Thanks to those gentlemen listed above, there are no records of the mass murders I saw you guys commit. Their blind accidental stupidity in 1979 by intentionally taking no records will assure you a complete victory. So sue me Rossi before I write a book about you. Those guys listed above will not protect me because they broke so many laws it is embarrassing. They are highly awarded and politically clean. They will deny what they did. They even have monuments bestowed upon them by the people. Nobody will ever believe me over them.
I will willingly help you get started on the lawsuit against me.
I will even try to reunite you with your aluminum thug club that I took from you and Cram that day in 1977. You guys used them to ram stones down people throats didn’t you?
Turn yourself in or SUE ME.
FFM. age 55, deepquarry@yahoo.com
Hi Michael Rossi, I almost forgot, when you sue me for defamation. In Illinois we have something called the blue code of silence. No matter how bad your 4 accidental protectors Thompson, Elrod, Doria, and Zaruba fuck up, the justice system is right there for them. All those laws they broke in 79, don’t worry the blue code of silence will protect them. The blue code of silence is amazing, there are guys in Illinois who slink through the shadows of criminality yet thanks to the blue code of silence they get to maintain that good old fashion persona of fake respectability. Yes Mr. Rossi, your mass murders are safely hidden. Those guys will protect you, and Illinois will protect them. Everyone’s protected…… well…….except the honest citizens of course.
-Sheriff of Dupage County John Zaruba,
-former Shrf. Of Dupage County Richard Doria,
-former Gov. of IL James Thompson,
-former Shrf. Of Cook County Richard Elrod,
1) I understand their embarrassment but they let mass murderers off the hook, FOR LIFE! They won’t admit it or fix it. My attempts are futile.
2) The above Sheriff’s secretly told a limited number of trusted employees and officials that;
“We feel John Wayne Gacy is responsible, we have our man in custody, there is no need for an investigation”
(these words are repeated from one of their own officers.)
3) They misled the public for decades with the contrived and ambiguous statement that “there are no reports” which is true because they intentionally made no public reports.
4) They falsified death records.
5) They cordially invited and lured the media to John Wayne Gacys home on Summerdale Ave as a media decoy for months on end while Deep Quarry was being quickly and covertly dug out and cleaned up
6) They sealed records assuring that nobody would ever be charged with anything. Mass murderers, Obstructors of Justice, and Accessories to crimes and I mean a lot of crimes.
All let off the hook FOR LIFE, with no recourse for the honest citizens.
They need to fix this.
FFM -the Deep Quarry witness.
THE THIRD ABDUCTOR.
http://www.imageshack.com/photo/my-images/547/thirdabductor.jpg/
I had postponed telling this event on shadowreports until now. I did not want to direct the immediate attention away from Cram and Rossi who I know were absolutely guilty of mass murder. In the late 70’s there was a man who seemed to be with Cram and Rossi one day. This man, who looked to be in his late 30’s, somehow silently got behind me, sneaking up on me, and was very close to me when I turned around. He silently sidestepped to try and stay behind me so I would not see him as I spun around. I had walked all the way from my car to the path of death and there was no way that he had followed me the entire way. I don’t remember any other cars parked in the front that day except for mine, so he was probably dropped off with Cram and Rossi who were there quite often. When I turned around on this secluded path, this man was within 4 feet of me. Cram and Rossi were also both in motion then on their way up to the path of death from their fake fishing spot. I gave this guy a look that practically said “where in the hell did you come from?” He stood there silently with his big arms and palms out toward me as I walked around him. He had a very animated look of disappointment in his face. We both walked separate ways then. I turned around and left the path; this man then walked the other way down the path southbound toward the south end lake. I watched Cram turn around and go back to his fake fishing spot when he saw me leaving the path of death.
I stared this guy down as I walked around him while he stood there with both arms out, palms facing me in disappointment. When he walked away he was looking left and looking right, up and down and back and forth like he pretending to be interested in the scenery. I remember everything about this guy who I believe was a third abductor on the path of death. I never saw him on the ledge near the lake where Cram and Rossi accosted and dropped victims into the water. I never saw him there again but I did meet a man who looked like him years later. I refer to this man as the third abductor, but cannot positively state that he is a murderer, only that he appeared to be working with Cram and Rossi and he tried to sneak up on me and grab me. I have given the authorities 2 possible names that I cannot disclose on this website. Please see my artwork on his face when the look of disappointment was upon his face after I turned around and found him sneaking up on me. He was 6 foot tall, strong broad build, big arms, balding in back, blondish slightly grey super short hair buzz cut, hook nose, polish ethnicity looking, nice clean clothes as described above. I got a very good look at this guy in front, profile and gait as he walked away, hands in both pockets of his tan colored knee length shorts, short sleeve white pullover shirt with collar, gold ribbon like designs on the shirt and a belt, white dress socks pulled high, clean gym shoes. Eventually I will artwork his entirety with clothes.
Here is the face of the third abductor with the disappointed look upon his face;:
http://www.imageshack.com/photo/my-images/547/thirdabductor.jpg/
I tried to work with Mr. Zaruba, Mr. Thompson, Mr. Doria, and Mr. Elrod months ago. I even offered to rescind my story in the beginning but those guys are simply too tightly wedged onto the saddle of their high horse. What magnificent kings we crown with pomp and laurels in this state. I wonder how much tax payer money has been wasted trying to figure out how to keep covering up the accidental 1979 mistakes instead of fixing them? I know that the politicians must feel that they don’t deserve this, but damn it, it’s the people who don’t deserve this, because mass murderers were set free for life. This is unacceptable and please stop using the “no reports ruse”, that one is really getting old. BTW, Why are there no reports gentlemen?
-FFM, the Deep Quarry witness.
I changed this a little bit to include 2 more dangerous pitfalls.
The realization of slander lawsuits on behalf of a mass murderer in regards to Deep Quarry may unfortunately be a textbook example to show the people the grotesquely magnified effects of a non-investigated major crime, to show the people the magnified ill effects of the misuse of the blue code of silence, and it also serves to show the people how even a mass murderer can be multi-protected by the laws that were designed to protect honest people. Mr. Michael J. Rossi, who was Gacy’s employee, wherever he is, is sitting smug right now (as was Mr. David F. Cram and potentially others), multi-protected by;
1)The non-investigation of the late 1970’s mass murders covertly and incorrectly blamed 100% on John Wayne Gacy.
2)The blue code of silence;
3)The potential volley of attorneys, through no fault of their own, who are willing to work for free, willing to take up the cause of protecting a mass murderer from “supposed” slander simply because there are “no reports”.
4)The potential Judges and Jurys, through no fault of their own, who can falsely and unjustly punish witnesses, simply because non-disclosure and non-investigation was the chosen and protected plan in 1979.
5)Honest witnesses being falsely prosecuted for “filing a false police report” or being falsely declared mentally incompetent simply because there are “no reports”.
All of these reasons and more can falsely prosecute the innocent, tie up the court systems, waste tax dollars and bring to public spotlight witnesses whose desires were to always remain anonymous for the safety of their family from lunatics and sympathizers. Unjustly finalized slander suits would be another coffin nail in the ethical protocols of justice, the protection of victims and witnesses rights, and the system of due process. If anyone needs legal protection from the misuse of power it is the people, and NOT the criminals. This all could have been avoided with simple honesty in government that used strict proper protocol. There are no valid reasons to protect the interests of a mass murderer.
Mr. Website owner. Please send me your email address. I want to start sending you documents. I am forsaking my anonymity soon in order to make public charges. It is too bad it has come to this. Thanks, F. Marcus, Deep Quarry witness. send to deepquarry@yahoo.com
I need to post some of these documents now just in case I get asked to stop posting.
I have no idea if the police are actually going to do anything this time or if they are still just jacking me around.
(They are doctored up for shadowreports)
— On Sun, 7/22/12, F Marcus wrote:
From: F Marcus
Subject: Re: DuPage County Sheriff’s Office
To: ____________@DuPageSheriff.org,
Cc: “xxx”
Date: Sunday, July 22, 2012, 10:34 AM
Hi _____,_______,
I think I figured it all out. Deep Quarry was cleaned up a long time ago. I ran into Gacy and his associates many times in that quarry from 1972 to 1978. Those foul smelling dug up spots were graves. The Summerdale avenue cleanup turned out to be a media decoy, intentional or not, while the east quarry wall from one end to the other was dug out to get the victims out. They clean up for drowned victims too at the same quarry at that same time. _________ was most likely cleaned up at the same time and most likely __________ too.
However, the public does not deserve to have their loved ones secretly dug up or fished out of a lake and have mystery fates; that is not what the people pay taxes for. I believe that there were too many victims dug up or fished out of multiple locations to have privately contacted all the families as I was originally was led to believe after I started to investigate this matter. Apparently saving face was priority back in 1979.
So now the questions that you and everyone else at the P.D. will probably ignore and never answer are:
1) What did they do with the recovered victims that the government did not report to the families?
2) Why are the accomplices still free?
.
Regards,
F. Marcus
—————————–
Answer to a letter I sent regarding Deep Quarrys excavation.
From: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 12:18 PM
To: F Marcus
Subject: RE: Deep Quarry Lake history
I have to tell you that I think the quarry operations account for 90% or more of the lake’s size. I’m guessing that about all the district did was smooth down the eastern side so there would not be a dangerous steep descent to the water on that side. At one point there was some discussion of making a swimming beach there, but talk of that ended when health department regulations made it likely we’d have to chlorinate the water (pretty much defeats the purpose of having a lake to swim in instead of a pool). But that also explains why the slope on the eastern side is pretty gradual.
I know that we have a lot of copies of aerial photos in existence, some of which have been digitized, but I don’t know whether we have the relevant ones for this property. I think you would have to put in a Freedom of Information Act request to get hold of one. I don’t know if there is one from the time period immediately before the district acquired the property (which would have been back in the 1960s or 1970s). Having those was standard operating procedure when we were looking at properties to buy in the 1990s, but I don’t know when that practice started. I also don’t know how far back the Supervisor of Assessments kept their old aerials (allowed them to see what buildings were on a property). You might end up having to contact the Sidwell Company, which did most of the aerial photography in DuPage County for decades.
XXXXX
XXXXX
XXXXX
Forest Preserve District of DuPage County
xxxxxxxxxxx
———————————–
From: F Marcus [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 11:59 AM
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Deep Quarry Lake history
Hi xxxxxxx,
I am doing a historical timeline on a particular area.
I am interested to know when construction began at the Quarry located at Gerber road and Army trail road in Northern Wayne Township?
Is there a plan drawing and aerial photograph of the way it was before the construction conversion began?
It was tiny with 2 small lakes and now it’s a big lake.
I am interested in one view looking straight down onto the center of the old quarry as shown in the attachment.
Is the person who spearheaded it still there?
Thanks,
— On Fri, 12/23/11, F. Marcus wrote:
From: F. Marcus
Subject: Re: DuPage County Sheriff’s Office
To: “xxxxxxxxxxxxx”
Date: Friday, December 23, 2011, 6:38 PM
Det. xxxxxxxxxx,
my cell is xxxxxxxxxxx
Regards,
F. Marcus
From: “xxxxxxxxxxxxx”
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 9:38 AM
Subject: DuPage County Sheriff’s Office
Mr. Marcus, my name is xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and I am the xxxxxxxxxxxxxx for the DuPage County Sheriff’s Office. The emails you have submitted were all forwarded to me. I have tried calling you, several times, but you have not been in the office. I would like to speak with you about your knowledge and the content of the emails you have sent. When you have some time could you please contact me at the below number. I am in the office during regular business hours Monday through Friday. Thank you for taking the time.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
DuPage County Sheriff’s Office
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I will not let this rest. Someone WILL go to jail. Will it be mass murderers? Will it be the honest witness railroaded in the most disgusting act of unmitigated pomposity ever by politicians? I would not put anything past Illinois right now. What they did at Deep Quarry says it all. -F. Marcus, Deep Quarry witness.
I Felix Francis Marcus, b. NFLD, CANADA 1957, an eyewitness to mass murders performed throughout the late 1970′s at what is now known as Deep Quarry in rural Dupage County IL;
1) I publicly charge Michael J. Rossi and his friend David F. Cram (deceased) with mass murder from 1976-1979 whereupon I observed them prey upon approximately one dozen victims on a secluded path, kidnap them, murder them and then dispose of their bodies in the small south end lake of the quarry. The victims cars were then driven away by the pair of murderous young thugs. I charge them with attempted murder on my own life at least twice during that time and attempted car theft of my vehicle when they mistakenly had assumed my car belonged to one of their freshly murdered victims.
2) I further accuse the following men with
“Obstruction of Justice”,
“Accessory to a Crime”
-(tentatively) 1979 Governor James Thompson,
-(tentatively) Current Sheriff of Dupage County John Zaruba,
-(tentatively) former 1979 Sheriff of Dupage County Richard Doria,
-(tentatively) former 1979 Sheriff of Cook County Richard Elrod,
For the following offenses;
a) The non-investigation of the mass murders in which they told a limited number of trusted employees and officials that
“We feel John Wayne Gacy is responsible, we have our man in custody, there is no reason for an investigation”
(these words are repeated from one of their own officers.)
b) Telling their employees in secret that it was 23 young boys who were drowned by John Wayne Gacy, this was a lie, I saw at least one woman, and older men who were victims.
c) Falsifying death records.
d) Misleading the public for decades with the contrived and ambiguous statement that “there are no reports” which is true because they intentionally made no public reports.
e) Cordially inviting and luring the media to John Wayne Gacys home on Summerdale Ave as a media decoy for months on end while Deep Quarry was being quickly and covertly dug out and cleaned up.
f) Offering no assistance to me whatsoever in my identification of thus far 3 of the 4 thugs at Deep Quarry. (Gacy, Rossi, Cram and the third abductor)
g) Creating a mystery regarding the fates of the victims at Deep Quarry.
h) Creating a mystery regarding whether or not any reports or investigation were actually undertaken regarding the mass murders at Deep Quarry.
i) Ignoring eyewitness accounts for decades regarding John Wayne Gacy’s extensive presence in the Deep Quarry general area.
j) Ordering that the records be sealed, or else not taken thus assuring themselves as to never be indicted on charges with no recourse for the citizens of this country.
k) Ordering that the records be sealed , or else not taken thus accidently assuring that no Gacy friends will ever be indicted on charges with no recourse for the citizens of this country.
l) Ordering that the records be sealed, or else not taken thus accidently assuring that some of the worst mass murderers in history will never be investigated with no recourse for the citizens of this country.
m) Creating an illegal situation where mass murder charges cannot even be filed.
n) Telling their employees in secret that the local politicians of Dupage and Cook Counties requested the cover up of for the purposes of avoiding bad publicity.
o) Misusing their power, misusing their affluence, misusing their perfect political record to maintain secrecy of their illegal cleanup
3) I further charge one other man, as yet unidentified, but easily identifiable, with assisting Cram and Rossi in the kidnappings on at least one occasion.
4) I further charge the state of Illinois for misusing their power since 1979 for illegal purposes of political favoritism by protecting the politicians illegal activities in their involvement in the Deep Quarry “no reports” ruse who have had otherwise impeccable careers. The “no reports” words twisted in a multitude of ways.
Felix Francis Marcus, age 55, Deep Quarry mass murder witness.
The “Michael Rossi”, who was an associate of Gacy is not the “Michael J. Rossi” in NY…….Gacy’s associate still lives in the Chicago area.
All,
1. I misunderstood the meaning and implication of the words “accuse” and want to rescind my accusations against the government officials listed below.
2. I did not realize that accusations are viewed as chargeable.
3. I was trying to light a fire under the feet of the only people who could find out who cleaned up Deep Quarry and get Rossi put away.
4. I have no idea who actually ordered the clean up at Deep Quarry.
5. Sorry if I angered some people, I just want to put Rossi away and find out if the third abductor is still around.
Felix Francis Marcus
I am using my legal birth name that only my friends, family and the authorities know.
I was born in St. Johns NFLD Canada in 1957 (check it out) and have dual citizenship.
Felix Francis Marcus
The Michael J. Rossi of NY is not the same Michael Rossi who was associated with Gacy…….The associate still lives in Illinois.
I attempted to post this earlier,I assume the moderator did not allow it?
Snoopy, He looks just like the man I saw in the quarry. Maybe you are right. I need to go find this guy and actually look at him.
I have this horrible feeling of impending doom that I am going to go to jail for defamation.
I literally have non-stop chest pains that get worse every day.
The intensity of the pain is proportional to the amount of time I spend on this subject matter. I am too embarrassed to see a therapist because I have accumulated a vast amount of subject matter, none of which can be verified thanks to the taking of no reports. I am a disbelieved witness and the pain is indescribable.
Felix Francis Marcus
WHY I FEEL DOOMED.
The police are going to investigate their 1979 files, and once they find nothing, through no fault of the 2013 police, some other department can legally make an unjustified public example out of me.
The more lengthy and in depth their investigation of my claims are the more it will actually work against me. At this moment, thanks to 1979 politicians, I literally have less protection from prosecution than the mass murderers those politicians unleashed upon society. Good job guys, real good job of getting the bad guys, you could not have screwed up any more if you tried.
F. Marcus, the Deep Quarry witness.
I was also told that I making matters worse with all the things that I am sending out, they want me to stop. They are so mad at me that the last conversation was dominated with what I did wrong. I will be the first to admit I made a few mistakes and stepped on some toes in this disclosure of events. But in the grand scheme of things everybody’s feelings, including my own, should be inconsequential compared to bringing mass murderers to justice. We need focus, not arguments about who did what wrong.
This has got to be my last post. I just can’t take it any more. You can’t fight city hall let alone an entire state. I will testify in the slim hopes of being called upon but other than that goodbye. -Felix Francis Marcus
I’m sorry you are in such distress. I just happened upon this site a couple of days ago, and read most of your posts.I became intrigued since I have followed the Gacy case from day 1, and there always seemed to be unanswered questions regarding his so-called associates. Please do not think I’m doubting what you’ve experienced. I was just curious about a few things.
1.Why would you go back to that area after witnessing murders.?
2.Did you tell the police right away?
3.How did you know their identities?
4.Why did you feel they wouldn’t harm you?